Titos partizans kiled the whole SS unit !

Objective research on factual information regarding German military related warcrimes.
phylo_roadking
Patron
Posts: 8459
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:41 pm

Post by phylo_roadking »

And don't forget the WHOLE aspect of blacks in the South being treated by the U.S. Army as "contraband", both "enemy property" AND because of their productive capacity - cribs burnt, families split up and put on the road to fend for themselves, or arrested and transported forcibly North. "Being free" doesn't mean damn-all when its just..."free to starve".

The instance of mistreatment of black slaves in thge South was of course as high as the mistreatment of anyone anywhere - but businessmen - which the average plantation owner or farmer or factory owner is by definition - don't maim, starve or torture their business/labour resource!!! Slaveworkers at IG Farben or the Mittelwerk would've dreamed to have been treated half as well as a plantation hand!

As for the indigenous Austalian population - the answer is FAR worse than Native Americans! Leaving aside all the propaganda, there's all the forcible reeducation, orphan schemes, forced religious conversions...even the bounty on dead Aboriginals and the "big game hunts"!!!

The American settlers just wanted their land and the gold or oil on it...they didn't want their spirits or souls!!!
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
John Kilmartin
Contributor
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:50 pm
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

Post by John Kilmartin »

Hi phylo,
Except for the 'big game hunts' everything you mentioned happened here in Canada. There are exactly the same number of Beothuks as there are aboriginal Tasmanians that is zero. The figures for adoption / foster care of first nations children by whites is astronomical never mind the Vancouver downtown eastside serial murders that are being tried right now. Canadian residential schools were just as destructive as those in Australia. The parallels are really amazing. Until I started listening to the satellite replays of Radio Australia's international shortwave broadcast it had never occured to me that the problems were so similar. (I have some suspicion that British trained civil servants might have something to do with the similarities).
Someone mentioned indigenous slavery, the three cultural groups that practiced something akin to slavery in Canada were all quite different from 'plantation slavery'. The West Coast form involved the capture of slaves by raiding parties and were an integral part of the Potlatch system in which as part of the ritualized gift giving and destruction of one's own property slaves would be ritually murdered by striking them on the back of the head with a canoe paddle designed for that purpose. But you wouldn't pass your unfree status to your children. Neither the Iroquoian speakers or Algonquian speakers had this feature either. The Iroquoian speakers did use slaves for some of the more unpleasant tasks in society but rarely was this status permanent. The Algonquian speakers at least in Canada didn't practice horticulture so that it was much more akin to becoming a step child not really equal but not doing anything they wouldn't be doing if they had not been captured maybe at the least pleasant times or conditions. There is an account of John Jewitt's captivity with the Nootka and another of John Giles with I believe the Micmac though it might be the Malecite as the areas he talks about are in the border zone between the two tribes.
John Graves Simcoe started the emancipation of slaves in Upper Canada in 1794 with the other colonies in what would become Canada following suit by 1805. Simcoe's method was to free slaves on their 25th birthday and to stop the sale of slaves. It would be surprising if there were slaves in what would be Canada later than 1820.
' Strip war of the mantle of its glories and excitement, and it will disclose a gibbering ghost of pain , grief, dissappointment and despair'
phylo_roadking
Patron
Posts: 8459
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:41 pm

Post by phylo_roadking »

John see what ive sent you by pm
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Reb
Patron
Posts: 3166
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by Reb »

Phylo

Southern firebrands often spoke, as you did, of factory conditions being worse than plantation conditions. I suspect that was accurate with one huge caveat: the factory workers could leave.

I remember reading of a slave who approached Gen. Custer when that worthy was headquartered in a planation while his troops vigorously wrecked railroads and much else.

The slave was approaching one hundred years of age and his life as a life was certainly no trial - most southerners were actually rather kind to elderly slaves. Custer asked him if at his age, freedom really meant all that much. "It do general, " quoth he, "It surely do..."

cheers
Reb
User avatar
Troy Tempest
Enthusiast
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Port Macquarie, NSW, Australia

Post by Troy Tempest »

Paddy Keating wrote:
History is a complicated subject. You cannot airily say "Yankees good...Rebels bad", especially when you hail from a country where "Abos" are still treated as badly as many Native Americans in the USA, where refugees are incarcerated on Oz's equivalent of Devil's Island...and tourists are expected to drink Fosters. Things just aren't that simple.

PK
Fair go Paddy! I did not 'airily' say anything, I admitted I was not from the south, and that I didn't know much about it. I also asked if he thought my views were fair enough or not, I wanted to know how he felt about my perceptions of the South's history. I also freely admit that Aborigines do not have a standard of living even approaching white Australians, and their general health and education levels are deplorable, no argument there. However, I am unaware of our own 'Devil's Island', and as for Fosters, that is just for the export market. It is not a very popular beer here, VB is the biggest seller! :D
Hello from sunny Port Macquarie
phylo_roadking
Patron
Posts: 8459
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:41 pm

Post by phylo_roadking »

Reb, wasn't drawing a comparison between Southern Slaves and modern factories in the first part of that; meant plantation slaves and those in Southern..."manufactories" I think was the term in use then...were - apart from the lack of freedom and sometimes harsh discipline - treated "better" than modern slaves; trained field hands and their families and skilled labourers were an economic resource. They weren't starved or worked to death, were even given enough low-grade education to enhance their use to their masters/owners; what use a field hand who couldn't count or read just a little? Rather, one of the "worst" crimes that a slaveowner could commit in the eyes of his equals was to "damage" a slave beyond any ability to profitably work again. More often a problem slave - undsciplined or inclined to run away - would be sold to a new master away from places he know, or from plantations to industry where the dsicipline was incidentally harder. And certainly after any initial conversion to Christianity their religion was NOT interferred with, quite the reverse; a nice servile religion like Fundementalist Gospel Christainity was WAY too useful in keeping them happy! And of course in the years leading up to the ACW this became even more pronounced as the African supply began to dry up courtesy of the British.

Compare ANY of this however with the controlled starvation of Jewish and other slaveworkers for the SS in Von Braun's Mittelwerk, or IG Farben, or any of the German industries that used slave labour from the concentration camps. The Nazis had this remarkably blind attitude to slave labour, very much like that of Rome's growth centuries - "we keep conquering countries or finding people for the camps, so why worry about the supply drying up - work them done on the smallest possible calorie intake, there'll always be more" That's not slavery as an institution, but as a resource to be used.

For blacks in the South a time of the ACW....think more - Spartan Helots?
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Reb
Patron
Posts: 3166
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by Reb »

"nice servile religion like Fundementalist Gospel Christainity ?"

Servile?!!!

Southerners, black and white, are mostly fundamentalist Christians and we are anything but servile! :D

Islam is the religion for slaves: Inshallah. :wink:

cheers
Reb
phylo_roadking
Patron
Posts: 8459
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:41 pm

Post by phylo_roadking »

nah! fundamentalist Gospel LOL - the sort of "jam tomorrow" religion that had them singing in the Colosseum in the days when "firebrand" and "pitching in" had a WHOLE different meaning! :D :D :D
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
phylo_roadking
Patron
Posts: 8459
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:41 pm

Post by phylo_roadking »

(can't help thinking how peaceful a world this might have been if Nero had kept on going til the job was done! :D :D :D )
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Reb
Patron
Posts: 3166
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by Reb »

Ultimately it wasn't Nero's call. I suspect if Nero had it to do over again he'd be much nicer to my pals! :D

cheers
Reb
User avatar
CIANO
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:38 am
Location: Portugal

Post by CIANO »

hi,

Pitty that I can not see anymore the photos...as the link is "closed"

regards,

Ciano :(
DUCE A NOI!
Mansal D

Re: partisans

Post by Mansal D »

haen2 wrote:That's exactly why German troops encountering "partisans" were so harsh with them
HN
Yeah and then they get called names. On one occasion on some military photos website I stated something as such and was attached by some mean people. I tried countless times to reason with them, but they wouldn't have any of it. All Germans were murderers who deserved to die and anyone who fought for them was just as bad. :?
Matthias Fritz
Almost banned
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:48 am
Location: Slovenija

Partizans

Post by Matthias Fritz »

Guys, i know some hard stuf that hapend during the 2.ww in my country ( Slovenia, ex Yugoslavia ), and specialy after the war when hell break down on everybody who fight with germans ageinst comunists parizans, the mayority was simply executed, and things that hapend to captured waffen SS members ( 7 SS Prinz Evgen ) are close to some realy bad horor mowie !!!

I dont understand that no one was held responseble for this crimes, like they never hapend !

Who is the real murderer ?
Reb
Patron
Posts: 3166
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by Reb »

"Who is the real murderer ?"

All of 'em. For good reasons and bad, the red thirst was upon 'em.

cheers
Reb
Matthias Fritz
Almost banned
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:48 am
Location: Slovenija

Re: Titos partizans kiled the whole SS unit !

Post by Matthias Fritz »

Do you know that the 2.WW was over in Yugoslavia six days after the 2WW was officaly over in the rest of Evropa and the rezon was Titos bloody hunt ageinst opozition and german armed forces ! Partizans were truying to block the retreting german divisions and they manage to hold in Slovenia some 50 000 Wermacht solders who were all executed not to mention all por bastards who were send back to Yugoslavia by English. Historians say that Titos regim killed close to 1 milion people until 1950 and 500 000 emidiatly after the 2 WW ! Slovenia is coverd with mass graves of solders and civilians, comunists were very strict when it cames to opoziton, they belived that the only god opozition is the death opozition and so they killed whoule familys including yung children, old people from my town steal remembers hearing mashine gun shutting from the woods that was going on for almoust two months ! Intelectuals and rich people with their familys were held in kindergarden and taken to killing filds at cover of the night, farmers remember the odd smell that was coming from the woods !

Sade think is that until now no one answer for this crimes and some executors are steal alife and some important comunists who gave the orders for mass kilings are steal receving high state pensions, can you emagine that !?
For history they are steal winners of the 2 WW, even if they are yust comon killers !!!

Matthias
Post Reply