Titos partizans kiled the whole SS unit !

Objective research on factual information regarding German military related warcrimes.
pzrmeyer2

Post by pzrmeyer2 »

Christoph Awender wrote:So your conclusion is now that as you said the Waffen-SS were chivalrous fighters because the Tito partisans were committing warcrimes?

\Christoph
behold once again the self-hating German.
TimoWr
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Post by TimoWr »

A contradictio in terminis. How can somebody from Austria be a self-hating German? :?
Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating »

Hairsplitting. Austrians in general were willing participants in the struggle to create Großdeutschland and a new German Empire. The Führer himself was Austrian. Bit of a pointless country anyway, since the collapse of the Hapsburgs. Absurd laws, like the ones forbidding motorcycles on certain country roads because some local person doesn't like the noise. It should really be absorbed into Germany, just as Belgium should be divided between France and Holland.

PK
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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender »

Well panzermeyer, people like you always use warcrimes of other nations to excuse the warcrimes of the german regime so that you can feel better when you admire the Waffen-SS elite warriors. None of your kind can accept that a german warcrime is as bad as a warcrime by someone else. You always have to point at someone else when it comes to german crimes and atrocities. And your ridiculous psychological analysis about me shows again that you are not able to understand what I am writing and that you forget things I said before. Don´t try to play the psychologist.... you just ridicule yourself.
You should start to contribute to the forum or leave and make a "Psychology for starters" course.

Paddy, such childish provocations about the country I am living in do effect me as much as if a bicycle topples down in Tokyo.

\Christoph
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Killing surrendered Soldier is Murder, Pure and Simple

Post by Opa »

Killing soldiers who surrendered is murder, period! Whether the surrendered are Waffen-SS Men or any other.

BTW, my mother's ancestors, from Moravia and Slovakia (Upper Hungary) bled for Habsburg, till suddenly, in 1945, on the run from ethnic cleansing, they found that the Germans of Austria had invented an Austrian peoplehood that excluded them. That was a betrayal!! :evil:
Honny soit qui mal y pense!
Matthias Fritz
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Replay !

Post by Matthias Fritz »

In this topic i am writhing abouth Titos partozans atrocitys against solders who surender ( they lay down their wepons so that they coud be easily kiled ) and mass murders that acure in Slovenija after the 2.ww !

I dont say or mean that the crimes comited by Waffen SS can be understand ot that they are les grusem, but the fact is, that not even one of Titos partizan kilers were ever trailed for their craimes, and the simpel fact is, that they shoud be !!!

Komunists have almoust the same dictator tactic as nazis have ! If you were against their belives, you were the enemy of the state and you have bean send to jail or some teching camps ( if you were minor age ) !

In yugoslavija they traid to make one nation country, that means that they truy ( after the 2.ww ) to mix slovenian nation with serbs, croats and muslims, so that the slovin as a nation, woud disaper !
And slovenian comunists have wilingly helping them, and for me, that is colaboration as weal as colaboration with german and italian ocupation forces during the 2.ww !
You are all wery lucky, that you didnt have to live in such country as i heve ! But we ( the slovenian people ) have trown their comunistic asis out of ouer country in 1991 !
pzrmeyer2

Post by pzrmeyer2 »

Christoph Awender wrote:Well panzermeyer, people like you always use warcrimes of other nations to excuse the warcrimes of the german regime so that you can feel better when you admire the Waffen-SS elite warriors. None of your kind can accept that a german warcrime is as bad as a warcrime by someone else. You always have to point at someone else when it comes to german crimes and atrocities. And your ridiculous psychological analysis about me shows again that you are not able to understand what I am writing and that you forget things I said before. Don´t try to play the psychologist.... you just ridicule yourself.
You should start to contribute to the forum or leave and make a "Psychology for starters" course.

Paddy, such childish provocations about the country I am living in do effect me as much as if a bicycle topples down in Tokyo.

\Christoph
Christoph,

I have never excused warcrimes committed by the nazis. It is you who must apparently carry the baton to "remind the world" at every turn of how horrible your kinsmen were and how every atrocity against Germans is somehow therefore justified.

I also see that you are still seething over my "psychological analysis" of you from some weeks ago. Apparently, the truth hurts, or you would not feel the need to lash out at every opportunity.

As far as understanding what you are writing, I do. Quite clearly. Lets look at this thread: we have a young member who posted an anecdote about a massgrave found with victims oh-so-easily blamed on the Germans. Later it is found that the crimes were perpetrated by partisans. No one glorifying the SS here. I do not know Matthias, nor do I neccessarily agree with him. But I respect the fact that if he truly is an ethnic German still living in Slovenia, that he has not been utterly brainwashed or made dumb after 60 years of communist/nationalist suppression and has the intellectual capacity to explore his roots. Your fisrt post asking him to cite is sources was legitmate, allbeit condescending, as usual. However, once again you illustrated your lack of social skills by trying to belittle and provoke him.

Christoph, I have no personal animosity against you, but I really wish you'd stop acting in this childish way. Sadly, i don't believe you can avoid taking every post here personal. I find it pathetic that your hatred of others who disagree with you is so deep and your desire to prove your intellectual supremecy so great that you cant even communicate with basic decency. The response to the PM I sent you over Christmas wishing your family a happy holiday and expressing the desire to find common ground with less fighting proves my "analysis" was more spot on than you'd care to recognize.

Now please, let it go.
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Post by Christoph Awender »

:-) Yes pzmeyer I am deeply in mental trouble because of your accurate analysis when?...obviously some weeks ago. You are taking yourself far too serious.
Remember that you are the one who is always starting with personal remarks? No factual contributions to the forum just remarks, cheerios to other members speaking bad against certain races and religions and good about the Waffen-SS. Your attempts by pm are ridiculous after so many insults you already seem to have forgotten. I stand to my attitude towards you. Social skills are necessary to keep friends - not necessary if you don´t want to have someone as friend.

But in one thing I agree with you. I let it go and will ignore your valuable contributions to this forum and towards me.

\Christoph
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Matthias Jünger
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Post by Matthias Jünger »

Christoph Awender wrote:So your conclusion is now that as you said the Waffen-SS were chivalrous fighters because the Tito partisans were committing warcrimes?

\Christoph
I don't want to take part in any argue or what, but just remember some things polemics and politics make us forgive easily...

In war, no one is innocent. Chivalrous fighters, eroes, cowards and ruthless murderers could be found in every army, because it's not the cause he's fighting for that makes the man.
War crimes have been committed and perpetrated by all the contenders who fought World War II, being them Italians, Russians, Germans, French, English, Japanese or Commonwealth or US soldiers, or simply civilians who took arms for opportunism or to really defend their homeland against those they tought they were oppressing it.
Knowing at list a little bit of the nature of war, we should all know that in the end written rules are quite useless when one is forced to face really strong human feelings like fear, rage, will of vengeance, hatred and so on.
Not every soldier subjected to the enormous stress of the battlefield has the moral strenght to stop the flowing of these feelings and say "no!" to such evilness and mean deeds.
On the other hand, we know that the victor will never present himself to history as the one capable of war crimes but he would describe himself as fair, noble, brave, and far from every mean feeling or coward act. His cause will ever be the right one.
I don't think Matthias was trying to deny or to justify Waffen-SS war crimes, no. I guess his aim was testify that communist fighters were as capable as Waffen-SS or any other combatants were to ruthlessly kill innocent people, a process just started in Italy and which is bringing lots of flaming polemics between historicians and politics.
I guess he's just trying to say that those who performed in the same brutal way of the Waffen-SS should not judge Waffen-SS behaviour, and if I'm guessing right, I agree with him.
But from state that to justify Waffen-SS war crimes, well...it's a very long way to go...

;)
Last edited by Matthias Jünger on Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by panzerschreck1 »

Mathias take a look at it this way those evil communist Yugoslaves did spend all the entire country's savings into mostly Slovenia and Croatia , because the economy and tourism industry's needed a big boost, financially after all plans had been accomplished and your country had been fully rehabilitated and replenished with all of the Yugoslav money in yes 1990 you suddenly chose to "balkanise"and establish your own independance , no problem with that!

But the same thing could had been done in the 70's or 80's to, but no !
Let's wait for the money transfers to end...and then declare our independance! Do you know how many other former Yugoslave province's had suffered thru complet negligence because of Slovenia's and Croatia's needs....Bosnia especially Macedonia and Montenegro did not receive zilch....so far they are one of the poorest country's of the Balkan's try to think about that my friend....of your country's complete selfish and ridiculous behaviour....to part from Yugoslavia no problem ,Macedonia had done the exact same!....but it's the way how that's iritating the hell out of me...

Frankly i had been to Slovenia a couple of times (Ljubjana) i talked to some and the thing that surprised/still surprises me is that you people are full with arrogancy towards the other ex-Yugoslave states ...as if you people are that much better....or racially pure considering the former ties with Austria-Hungary....Slovene don't cry that much...cause it only makes me laugh...

PS i;m no Serb but half Dutch/Macedonian and yes i know a fare deal about the Balkan terrible agonising history...actually you Slovene's should clap your hands and thank all heaven god, etc for coming out of all the misery's rather unscaved....Period...
"Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."[
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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender »

Hello Matthias
In war, no one is innocent. Chivalrous fighters, eroes, cowards and ruthless murderers could be found in every army, because it's not the cause he's fighting for that makes the man.
I totally agree Matthias. Exactly what I say and what common sense tells us. The point is that people like those we are talking about use these crimes to justify their admiration of the Waffen-SS. They "forgive" warcrimes of the german side because the opposite side was cruel as well (as it is in such war situations) and you will never hear the sentence that it was the same way the other way round. So in their oppinion Waffen-SS soldier were victims of all and everybody including those cruel communist partisans. None of them can accept that both sides (speaking of the partisan wars) ordered, accepted and supported atrocities within their ranks.
Like children they have to point to the bad other side as soon as they are confronted with bad things of their favoured side.

\Christoph
Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating »

These are not "provocations", Mr Awender. I happen to see Austria as a charming but rather pointless country in the wider scheme of things. Part of the country should be absorbed by Germany and the other part by Hungary.

PK
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Replay !

Post by Matthias Fritz »

Panzershrack,
you realy dont know what are you toking abouth ! Slovenia was the richiest republick in ex Jugoslavia and we suport all other republics all the way since the end of the 2.ww ! You shoud yust trawel with train tro ex Jugoslavia and you woud see the big diference and the powerty all the way, exept in Serbia who manage to take the bigiest part of money aid Toto was getting from western cuntrys and of course Slovenia was paying the bigiest part of the low given to Jugoslavia and tha is the fact ! In some point it has to be over so we somehowe manage to get ouer independence ! I was in the independence slovinan army and i can acualy felt the arogance of the Jugoslav army comanders as they truy to destroy Slovenia, but the western countrys sopported ouer efords to stop and later on trow this ocupaid army out of my country ! In 1970 that was not possible, becourse Tito was stel alive and comunists were strong in power ! Slovenian people have soferd a lot, during the 2.ww and after the war ended, comunists have kiled araund 300 000 slovinian members of opozition ! For the nation that numberd 1 000000 people that is enormes and you are tooking about slovin arogancy toword other ex jugoslav republics ! Yes slovin people was alwys mixed with austrians, germans and italians and that dasent make as better but it only make as part of Evropa comunity and no balkans !
Titos partizans were kilers, not all but mayority, specialy the real comunists who were faithing from the revolutionary point and the war agains the germans was not their priority ! They have yust uze the partizan mowment for their cominist revolution ! In Slovenija and all other parts of ex Jugoslavija was revolution going on during the 2.ww ! I hope you understand that !
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Post by rommel_gaj »

I found great link to tret, whre are originaly picturs taken by Titos partizans showing how they were likvidated the whole SS unit sumwhere in the hill near Rijeka ( Croatia ) !
It is hard to discern whether the soldiers are Heer or W-SS (although at a first glance, they look more like Heer). The photos can be found here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &start=465

Any ideas anybody?

Koca
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Post by streljko »

You are right, Gaius, these soldiers are not SS, I belive they are Sicherungs Bataillon 705, that defended Sušak.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... t705-R.htm
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