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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:12 am
by phylo_roadking
Well, you could also take into consideration that the British Army flys the Union Jack in all sizes from radio aerials of all sizes...and this flag was carried at the head of TWO invading colonial armies into Afghanistan in the 19th century...! I'd have thought THAT was more politically controversial in Helmand Province...
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:30 am
by Waleed Y. Majeed
Tom, no criticism taken merely stating the symbol is too closely
connected to the regime and therefor caused trouble as did
the runes used by the Danes, also in Afghanistan.
Not being German myself I do not know what the attitude is
towards this in Germany. My main source is Danish news
and it is our "big neighbour" from the south. We share NATO
command of the troops in Northern Germany/Denmark.
but philo, isn't the Union Jack the flag of the nation as is the
Danish (Christian) Dannebrog.
The fact the British army couldn't care less... that's a different story.
waleed
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:10 am
by phylo_roadking
I believe the German political opposition to BW troops being deployed abroad is attempting to make mileage out of it, but a significantly higher percentage of the voting public supports the German government taking a greater role in military affairs abroad. They also quite rightly realise that's its a "Perception" thing - but not in the sense that you might think; more a converse thing, in that they don't understand why noone made such a fuss of rehabilited WWII vets and limited symbolic continuity when WE - NATO etc. - needed the Bundeswehr from 1955 on
They're viewing it as a case of double standards - which it is.
Waleed, it doesn't really matter that the Union Jack is a national flag, it's still one that historically Afghans object to. And its that that's giving the politicans and diplomats trouble in the durbars and with community elders they're trying to bring onside.
You have to remember that the Taliban are only ONE faction - albeit the largest - of the religiously-militant Afghan population...the West are trying to work through or split off from the Taliban groups that are every bit as polarized in their militant nationalism courtesy of the original Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.
And flying the flag that these elders' grandfathers and great grandfathers fought against is
really not doing anyone any favours
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:09 am
by Paddy Keating
Jason Pipes wrote:What makes it interesting is that the modern German navy had a guided missle destroyer known as FGS Rommel (D187) decommissioned 1998. How come the navy could have a ship named after Rommel but the infantry can't use one of his symbols? There are two other similar sister ships in the modern German navy, FGS Lutjens (D185) decommissioned 2003, and FGS Molders (D186) also decommissioned in 2003.
And then there were the squadron cuff titles worn by personnel in the new Luftwaffe, commemorating First and Second World War fighter aces like Immelmann and Mölders. JG 74 was awarded the Mölders cuff title on 22.11.1973 by Generalleutnant Günther Rall. Other squadrons bore WW1 aces' names, including Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen", Aufklärungsgeschwader 51 "Immelmann" and Jagdbombergeschwader 31 "Boelke". I believe Jagdgeschwader 73 got the name Steinhoff. One of the highest-scoring WW2 aces, Steinhoff served in the post-1957 Luftwaffe. I think some of these cuff titles are still worn.
The Heer has Panzer-Grenadier units, the term being a direct link to Wehrmacht days. Panzergrenadier-Bataillon 212 still uses the Windhund tradition symbol although I don't think they wear it on their field caps. The Komet has also been used by the BW Fallschirmjäger and their beret badge is closely modelled on the 1936-1944 Luftwaffe Parachutist Badge. And, of course, they still sing
Rote scheint die Sonne,
Fallschirmjägerlied and the
Kretalied, although some of the more martial verses are omitted on official occasions. I am sure there are more examples out there but it's not my main focal point. I can also say that the BW-FS Jump Badge I was awarded has the same Assmann 'A' on the reverse as the WW2 versions in my collection.
Waleed,
Yes, indeed, you spotted the typing error!
PK
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:26 pm
by micky.beck
Hi @ all.
I wars in the Luftwaffe 1996 in the Jagdgeschwader 74 "Mölders" in Neuburg / Donau. We are not proud for that Mölders wars in the Nazi Wehrmacht - Luftwaffe, we are proud that he wars a fightig ass , for traditions " Soldatische Treue, Kameradschaft " not the Nazis!!! We lost 2005 the name "Mölders" but i`m proud for my Armbands ( Geschwader Mölders )on my Uniform and the time in the Bundeswehr/Luftwaffe!
MickyBeck
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:29 pm
by Hans
A fighting "ASS". Now there's something to see
- Ooops Sorry.
- Hans
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:27 pm
by micky.beck
micky.beck wrote:Hi @ all.
I wars in the Luftwaffe 1996 in the Jagdgeschwader 74 "Mölders" in Neuburg / Donau. We are not proud for that Mölders wars in the Nazi Wehrmacht - Luftwaffe, we are proud that he wars a fighting ass , for traditions " Soldatische Treue, Kameradschaft " not the Nazis!!! We lost 2005 the name "Mölders" but i`m proud for my Armbands ( Geschwader Mölders )on my Uniform and the time in the Bundeswehr/Luftwaffe!
MickyBeck
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:40 am
by pzrmeyer2
We lost 2005 the name "Mölders" but i`m proud for my Armbands ( Geschwader Mölders )on my Uniform and the time in the Bundeswehr/Luftwaffe!
Why is the name Molders no longer used?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:21 pm
by micky.beck
hi @ pzr meyer 2
The "Links Party" (PDS) and people from spain writhe "a little question" to the Bundeswehr, why is that possible that the german Bundeswehr installations- , air fields- , places- , streets- and ships had names, like Mölders, they wars in ww2 in the legion Condor in spain.
Thanks to ex Minister of defense Mr. Struck and the Links Party is the name Mölders not longer used!!
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:18 pm
by pzrmeyer2
micky.beck wrote:hi @ pzr meyer 2
The "Links Party" (PDS) and people from spain writhe "a little question" to the Bundeswehr, why is that possible that the german Bundeswehr installations- , air fields- , places- , streets- and ships had names, like Mölders, they wars in ww2 in the legion Condor in spain.
Thanks to ex Minister of defense Mr. Struck and the Links Party is the name Mölders not longer used!!
somehow, I figured that was the case. Its too bad there is no one in the Bundeswehr or any political leadership who has the balls or the patriotism to say "enough!" and stop the apologies and investigations.
Re: Bundeswehr vehicles in Afghanistan
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:47 am
by oldbobg
All unit designators are good to see. I shows history. It is a responsible thing not to crush all references to the past. The iron cross is inherently decent as it is part of history, not just nazi history. The only bad thing would be the return of the "goose step." That seems to me to be too much.