Bundeswehr vehicles in Afghanistan

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Jason Pipes
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Bundeswehr vehicles in Afghanistan

Post by Jason Pipes » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:01 am

Thought some of you might find these pics interesting. They show German Bundeswehr vehicles used by German units in Afghanistan with a WWII style palm tree emblem on them.

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Klaus1
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Post by Klaus1 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:01 am

It is nice to know they kept the classic emblems.
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Waleed Y. Majeed
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Post by Waleed Y. Majeed » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:07 am


phylo_roadking
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Post by phylo_roadking » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:19 am

Hardly..."news"...what year was the Bundeswehr formed??? :D

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Marc Binazzi
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Post by Marc Binazzi » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:37 am

Who's the guy with the white pants?????

Oh by the way if you are interested in the "family connection" between Wehrmacht and Bundeswehr, I would suggest you to grab a copy of Arsenal # 4 (cheap and easy to find on Ebay.de), a publication of the ex-DDR which contains a lengthy article on how the Bundeswehr "recycled" all the top brass of the late Wehrmacht..... :roll:
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Post by Jock » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:43 am

Our 7th Armoured Division still uses the title 'Desert Rats', and many of the badges and tactical markings of the WWII 7th Armoured.

Why is the Bundeswehr not allowed to use similar, traditional, inofensive markings? Obviously some symbols of the Third Reich, along with certain divisional markings should be strenge verboten, as they could offend people.

Lunacy.
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Post by phylo_roadking » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:51 am

I seem to remember the British Army didn't object to the Prussian Cross on the shakos of the Prussian Landwehr appearing out of the late afternoon gloom at Waterloo...
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:56 pm

phylo_roadking wrote:Hardly..."news"...what year was the Bundeswehr formed??? :D

Image
Phylo,

The BW was formed in 1955. Wehrmacht veterans were not excluded as long as they had 'clean' resumés. That included Waffen-SS veterans, interestingly enough. After that, there was the 1957 issue of denazified WW2 awards. The BW cross is pre-Nazi but I remember seeing the "Baltenkreuz", as applied to planes and vehicles during WW2, on BW vehicles in the 1980s. However, I gather that this was an unofficial practice.

PK

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Post by phylo_roadking » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:02 pm

"UNofficial" ??? As is becoming more common, that BBC journalist didn't check his facts. From the home page of the German Embassy in Washington D.C....stylised -but official!

http://www.germany.info/relaunch/politi ... y/das.html

or

http://www.germany.info/relaunch/politi ... itary.html
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Post by phylo_roadking » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:09 pm

Or even - go straight to the horse's mouth!

http://www.bundeswehr.de/portal/a/bwde
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Waleed Y. Majeed
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Post by Waleed Y. Majeed » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:19 am

The problem here as I see it is not the use of the Iron Cross
as the "new" symbol of the Bundeswehr. The EK is as Paddy said a
pre-Nazi military decoration of the Kingdom of Prussia, first awarded
in 1813. It is a symbol of proud German (Prussian) military traditions
as the eagle is a symbol of Germany.

The palms on the vehicles posted here are specific "logos"
only used once before in history... during the NAZI period
of German history and ONLY used by the Afrika Korps.
This is what makes it controversial. Incorporating the EK into the
palms instead of the swastika does not make it less controversial.

Paddy, there's a distinctive difference the Baltenkreuz and the Balkenkreuz.
I'm assuming you meant the latter... :wink:


waleed

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:43 am

Waleed Y. Majeed wrote:The palms on the vehicles posted here are specific "logos" only used once before in history... during the NAZI period of German history and ONLY used by the Afrika Korps.
This is what makes it controversial. Incorporating the EK into the
palms instead of the swastika does not make it less controversial.
Well, the way I see it, they are emulating the men of the DAK who fought in harsh terrain, not the regime they fought for. The DAK fought well, there's nothing wrong with emulating them.

Some people just worry too much about insignificant things.
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Jason Pipes
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Post by Jason Pipes » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:45 am

What makes it interesting is that the modern German navy had a guided missle destroyer known as FGS Rommel (D187) decommissioned 1998. How come the navy could have a ship named after Rommel but the infantry can't use one of his symbols? There are two other similar sister ships in the modern German navy, FGS Lutjens (D185) decommissioned 2003, and FGS Molders (D186) also decommissioned in 2003.

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Waleed Y. Majeed
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Post by Waleed Y. Majeed » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:50 am

Insignificant for some, controversial for others. By emulating one, one must also take into consideration
the nazi expansion, occupation and aggression in North Africa, no matter if the men fought under harsh
conditions or were led by Rommel or not. Bottom line they fought for a Nazi regime
and not least adopted their own symbol or "logo" for this specific campaign. Adapting a similar symbol today is wrong in the eyes of the
modern German army.

Naming the ships after persons - Right or wrong, I can't say.
Rommel, well for his fame or more likely his ending. Most would probably approve of the use here.
Question again was the symbol his or one of the regime.

Mölders? :?
http://www.bw-flyer.de/neu/geschwader/l ... /jg74.html

Günther Lütjens. Guess its for commanding Bismarck against a overwhelming British naval force.
Btw all 3 destroyers are Lütjens class destroyers (a modified Charles F. Adams class).


waleed

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:46 am

Waleed Y. Majeed wrote:Insignificant for some, controversial for others. By emulating one, one must also take into consideration
the nazi expansion, occupation and aggression in North Africa, no matter if the men fought under harsh conditions or were led by Rommel or not. Bottom line they fought for a Nazi regime and not least adopted their own symbol or "logo" for this specific campaign. Adapting a similar symbol today is wrong in the eyes of the modern German army.

Naming the ships after persons - Right or wrong, I can't say.
Rommel, well for his fame or more likely his ending. Most would probably approve of the use here.
Question again was the symbol his or one of the regime.
I understand your point, and trust me I'm not criticizing you. But if the NAVY can name ships after men who fought bravely, why is it wrong for a group of ARMY men to do something similar? They're not advocating a return to those days, they're just mimicking a group of guys who fought in similarly lousy conditions. Had the used the Hakenkreuz, then I could see the issue. What if they used the Totenkopf of the Prussian Hussars? They aren't using any Partei emblems, merely the emblem of a group of soldiers.

Hey, it's just my opinion, but I think the situation's being blown out of proportion. Remember, my opinion only has real value to me! :wink:
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