Feldgrau Author: Mark C Yerger

[Mark C Yerger]

Replying a PM sent question on the signed Dörner document. Those types of documents were sent to next of kin though they were generally not made as they don't appear all that often. One for an officer would be signed by a regimental commander. An NCO's document was signed by the battalion commander, and an enlisted man by his company commander from the examples I've seen over the years. Oddly enough, most I've looked at were during 1943. Below one for an NCO and so signed by his Bataillonskommandeur. Despite John Moore's help and both of use looking at it in depth, I have not yet been able to determine who signed the document, commanding a battalion of SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 7 with Polizei Division.

[pzrmeyer2]

Marc,

I was curious if you could explain how you were able to gain your "in" with the vets and gain their trust and maintain it over the years. Now, I have no problem with objective truths about them and their organizations, but I'm sure you know that some authors have used their relationships to turn around and defame some of these vets. What made them trustful of you?

As always, best wishes.

[Jason Pipes]

What made them trustful of you?

His objectivity? His lack of interest in profiting off of them?

[Mark C Yerger]

Jason

Those are 2 primary reasons. I gave and shared what I found freely, though most wanted to pay for photos, etc. Makes no sense to take money for something I feel belongs to someone else. I have no political interests now or then, just wanted military career details of the men who served in these units. No interest in asking for their medals, uniforms, etc as it was outside my interest. Most vets consider militaria collectors "pests" with no knowledge or interest in their units or history aside from money value. Finally, reading what I wrote and how further showed my goal. All rather simple and rather surprised no American ever bothered before me to that degree of contact and detail. A few authors made some contact, at least 1 well known one being to lazy to send a xerox copy of a document to a divisional commander after he'd helped. The reputation of many western authors is often not the best with good reason. Finally I wanted to know, learn, and understand directly from them. As basic as that sounds, seems few had enough interest to try previously.

[John P. Moore]

Mark - I understand your last comments very well. Also, I was looking at that framed death document of Uscha. M. again and I now believe that the battalion commander's signature is that of Günther Ortmann. The name stuck in my mind since you and I were discussing his file last month in connection with your Polizei book. I checked his proposal document for the DKiG and the command position and dates match. Another mystery solved!

John

[Jason Pipes]

Another mystery solved!

Excellent!!

[Mark C Yerger]

Thanks John !

I can "see" it now, in the original search never guessed the initial letter as an "O." Some signatures are impossible, I have several Vorschlagsliste that are a similar mystery as they don't match who should be in command of units, etc.

Mark

[Mark C Yerger]

at the eulogy for Otto Weidinger in 1990 are:

front row left, Weidinger's son Wolfgang and his wife. Both stayed with me during part of their visit to the US.

2nd row left: Otto Kumm and beside him Sylvester Stadler. At the opposite end of the same row is Otto Baum

The woman in a white blouse seen behind Wolfgang is Princess Stephan zu Schaumburg-Lippe, last member of the Austro-Hungarian royal family. I never slept much during the reunions. She was an accomplished artist and sent me a watercolor painting of the river that ran through the town as she always found me there in the early morning while waiting for everyone to wake up for breakfast.

[pimberg]

That's a great photo Mark. Thanks for sharing it. Any chance of seeing a photo of your good self with one of the vets?

Regards,
Peter

[Mark C Yerger]

Otto Baum and I going through one of the previously mentioned albums I assembled for the reunions. After Otto Weidinger passed away, Baum succeeded him as my general advisior for various research projects. Both he and is wife were always very kind to me. Baum's hobby was woodworking and he made a number of beautiful bowls and candlesticks I treasure, all from an apple tree he cut down himself while in his mid-70s. All these men had a great sense of humor and often we wrote or talked about things other than research. During one rather long winded speech by a guest, Baum wrote some names on a paper and slid it to a vet next to me. It had some of the divisional commanders of Das Reich and he'd written "who else were our commanders." The vet added a few names and slid it to me. I completed the list and added start and end dates for all, apparently funny to both a "junior" would know more than they did, causing audible laughter during a part of the speech not meant to be funny. Caused a few stares

[pimberg]

Great story and great picture Mark.

The way you go about your research, all the places you've been to obtain information and all the people you've met would make an excellent book in itself.

Many thanks,
Peter

[Mark C Yerger]

Thanks Peter

Meeting these people and developing friendships was about as exciting for me as it could get. I often remember thinking how I wish someone from home was with me just to watch. Like a sports fan having all the big sports stars know you in depth and the same in return. It was hard to focus sometimes during visits and not be amazed or star struck for want of a better term at those I was seated with, walking beside or visiting.

For anyone with a history topic interest, there is only 1 and possibly part of a 2nd generation after those who participated who can actually talk to those who were there. After that they're gone and any input they might have had is lost. Likewise the ability to know them as individual people only lasts a short time. As best I could I got to as many as possible, rarely taking any kind of break as the passing of time and their age was the enemy. I've never forgotten any of them or lost my appreciation for their help, kindness, and friendship. Hopefully what I've written so far is seen by them as being worth their efforts on my behalf.

[Jason Pipes]

Thanks for the continued excellent discussion on your work and the background to your research Mark. I think many people are finding a lot of value in your comments.

I think now might be an excellent time to address some other aspects of your work that have been addressed to me offline and to which I would love to hear your comments on. Seeing as the author forum should involve critical analysis I think this discussion is entirely appropriate especially if it's done objectively. I certainly have no axe to grind either way. I pose these questions in the spirit of true academic inquiry.

So, on to my questions and I look forward to your responses in exchange.

Mark, can you provide any more thoughts around your objective approach to your research? I've heard some comments that suggest that because your work was so closely associated with folks that later became lasting friends that your objectivity could have been affected. How would you respond to that?

I find that people can have the perception that photos like that of your officer and SS display as shown above indicate some lack of objectivity. How would you respond to that suggestion?

Are you aware of any reviews of your work that have been published anywhere that indicate any of the concerns above, or of any comments from other historians that find fault in your methods or findings, or that suggest you've left out important details?

Thanks for taking the time to comment on these thoughts and for further historical discourse on the topic!

[Mark C Yerger]

Jason

It seems anyone with an objectivity axe to grind always brings up (re: “Das Reich”) Oradour as their “weapon of choice”
“You didn't tell about Oradour" (even when outside the scope of a book)
"Oradour proves every Waffen-SS man murdered civilians" (the mindset obvious in many comments)

I’ve studied the event, a single event involving the reactions of a group of soldiers who found the mutilated remains of a beloved commander. Right or wrong, the event happened, and from what I see the blame and causes are in the middle. I don’t find it easy to judge a situation from a living room chair. I wonder what my own reaction to the same situation in the field would have been.

At the same time to assault the character of thousands of men who served in a unit during different times from one small group’s actions, regardless of how one views the events, is illogical and worse than narrow minded. It is part of the operational history written about by Weidinger as well as in a separate volume. Its been covered previously in detail.

Once again, my goal has been from the start to understand the military career facts of these men, when promoted, awarded decorations, posts/assignments (and understand them as well), successors and predecessors. Also specifics as to why they got higher awards. None of this was done in the detail I have before me and I don't know why. Also the formation and development of the individual divisions/elements. Since that material is factual, it is obviously fully objective. If my interest was the Einsatzgruppen, the Camp system, or some other topic, I would write about that. My interest is the units and personnel of the SS/VT and Waffen-SS …..AS A WHOLE. Within that I have certain more narrow topics of interest, such as German Cross holders, or high interest units such as “Das Reich.“ If others wish to spend vast amounts of effort rewriting the same opinions of Oradour (or similar other isolated events with other units) that is their prerogative. Bargain tables in book stores are overgrown with books writing absolutely nothing new. Personally, I’d rather have the tress back that were destroyed to print them. Likewise, Internet forums are full of comments by individuals using false names who have never published anything. I back what I’ve done or say under my own name.

I logically prefer to keep events in perspective. An isolated event does not , in my opinion, constitute a unit history or determine the reputation of every man who ever served in that unit. History remembers My Lai and forgets much of the other history in Vietnam. Endless similar comparisons can be made for every unit or war in history. Perspective is often lost and the fact that incidents outside normal accepted “rules of warfare” have happened on all sides in all wars. Those who dwell on single incidents seem to negate the fact their own countries had similar events, but if one wishes simply to foster hate I assume that is one method to do so. Anyone who thinks unarmed German troops weren’t executed by US troops in WWII is dreaming. However, those scattered and abnormal incidents aren’t what should be used to judge the entire US Army.

I doubt anyone ever wrote a book that someone didn’t like. Obviously I’m doing something right or well as everything I’ve ever compiled has been published. Normally the first question I get when a book is released is when the NEXT one will be done. Since the volumes are written on an ever higher knowledge level as I learn more, that would seem to reflect the increasing knowledge level of readers and the ever higher learning level the readership wishes. Likewise, since no one has written anything similar to what I’ve done specifically, one would assume there is insufficient new factual information to warrant a new publication.

The signed photos on my walls are from more than a hundred Knight’s Cross holders, German Cross holders, divisional or element commanders. Many of the inscriptions contain birthday greetings, congratulatory messages, or expressions of thanks for something I did for that individual. As a historian I obviously collect documents, books, photos, and any tangent research material. Those inscribed photographs are mementoes of friendships that I treasure and they remind me fondly of the time we had before they passed away, their generation being 40-50 years older than me. I don’t know anyone with similar level of higher commander/award holder veteran contact in that area, perhaps jealousy is the problem with some or resentment of my having proof of who I’ve known. I’m surprised the areas of forums for those who collect uniforms, badges, etc don’t get similar “negative commentary.“ Sorry, I have nothing to defend. I’m extremely proud of the walls that adorn my study area.

It must be the same for those who read about American Indians, I assume some would presume them to be “anti-American” (how ironic) as well as anyone studying British forces during the Revolutionary War. To be bluntly honest, my only general comment/reaction interest is the direct comments I get from colleagues such as John Moore, George Nipe, Ignacio Arrondo, Phil Nix, and others with a logical and in depth background, void of political or social sentiments. Obvious politically or socially motivated negative comments have no effect on me or relevance in what I’ve done or am doing. And in the reverse extreme, those positively motivated by the politics of the 3rd Reich are irrelevant and outside my interest in any way. Politics are theory and practice, and I’ve never considered politics or politicians of any type an interest, past or present. Those who don’t like a book I do won’t buy it. I’d venture to say my efforts, and the support and interest of my readership, will continue to do just fine without them.

[John P. Moore]

Mark - That was a very good reply and I am in complete agreement. I believe that it can be said that we have objectively researched many, many individuals with the result that we have formed favorable opinions about some members of the Waffen-SS while there are others that we have found to be absolutely despicable. I prefer to write about people who I can speak favorably of, but do include some negative examples such as the officers who are punished for offenses such as cowardice, embezzelment, drunkenness, property theft, homosexuality and rape. I would prefer to write and read about a good and decent man such as Otto Weidinger rather than Oskar Dirlewanger. If people did not like what you wrote about, they would not continue to purchase your books over all these years. But then nobody can ever expect to have a 100% approval rating as politicians well understand and the occasional negative reaction by some anonymous people on the Internet is not something to be overly concerned about.

John