Osama bin Laden dead

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fridgeman
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Osama bin Laden dead

Post by fridgeman » Mon May 02, 2011 6:09 am

Im sure most of you have already heard in the news that bin Laden was killed.
Im wondering about the US, why they did not tried to catch and trial him?

I mean, at first they have again the exact opposite of what they wanted, a new martyr.
And it really did not sound as they wanted to get him alive, when Mr. Peace Nobel price
Obama says "After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body".

Seems the US finally replaced justice with vengeance, and the president dont even tries anymore
to let this kill look like a failed arrest.

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Tom Houlihan
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Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Post by Tom Houlihan » Mon May 02, 2011 6:14 am

You can try to take someone alive, but if they resist, you don't jeopardize friendlies just to win a "best-case" scenario.
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fridgeman
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Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Post by fridgeman » Mon May 02, 2011 6:25 am

I question myself just if they even tried to catch him. From what i red so far, he hided in a part of the city with
living homes and such, his house was surrounded by high walls and guarded by a very few men aswell.
And as my lecture goes so far, the house and surrounding area was attacked from air before
special forces moved inside, probably by drones or helicopters.

US will say he is a dangerous combatant, so we use our army even there is no declared war in pakistan.
Our army in no police, so they may hit a bit harder. Sure they have a point, to arrest such mad people
may be near to impossible, they sure will fight to death or try to commit suicide.

Still i cant understand a president who orders his army to do so, and i understand even less people doing a party
at the white house to celebrate the kill.
Finally i am pretty sure many people in the US never wanted to see him infront of a court,
that guy sure knew some dirty little secrets.

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Tom Houlihan
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Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Post by Tom Houlihan » Mon May 02, 2011 6:54 am

fridgeman wrote:I question myself just if they even tried to catch him. From what i red so far, he hided in a part of the city with living homes and such, his house was surrounded by high walls and guarded by a very few men aswell.
And as my lecture goes so far, the house and surrounding area was attacked from air before
special forces moved inside, probably by drones or helicopters.
Hiding in a residential area is par for the course for the terrorists. That makes it harder for our forces to take them out, and easier for their propagandists when a civilian gets hurt. I'm sure that before the troops actually went into the compound, air support did what they could to isolate the compound, and eliminate any obvious shooters they found.
US will say he is a dangerous combatant, so we use our army even there is no declared war in pakistan.
Our army in no police, so they may hit a bit harder. Sure they have a point, to arrest such mad people
may be near to impossible, they sure will fight to death or try to commit suicide.
Personally, I don't believe for a minute the Pakistanis were completely ignorant of his presence. That was why Presidential authority would have been necessary, to run the attack on (allegedly) friendly territory. Military personnel try to take prisoners when the situation allows, but if someone looks like they're going to return fire, you do what you have to do.
Still i cant understand a president who orders his army to do so, and i understand even less people doing a party
at the white house to celebrate the kill.
Really? You have trouble understanding this? How many people danced for joy when Mussolini was killed by those partisans? How many people shouted for joy when Hitler committed suicide? Go back through history. There are many men whose deaths, for whatever reason, brought joy to the people who didn't like them. Don't try to make Americans look bad because we're happy about the death of the Arschloch that ordered the World Trade Center/Pentagon bombings.
Finally i am pretty sure many people in the US never wanted to see him infront of a court, that guy sure knew some dirty little secrets.
Oh, I'm sure he knew a LOT of secrets! Personally, I'm glad he's dead. I have no doubt that if he had been brought before something resembling a trial, some sh*thead lawyer would have been up there defending his right to kill innocent people, solely because they're American, Jewish, or Christian.
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Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Post by fridgeman » Mon May 02, 2011 7:42 am

An Eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is the lesson taught from this happening again, and
no matter how people justify this, it doesnt make it any better. And i dont want to try to make
americans look bad, im just sad to see how they deal with this case in the US.

I believe myself that bin laden deserved a death penalty, i just think the way it was done spreads
a wrong message to the world, that revenge is a good thing, and you can enjoy it.
It seems such assasinations become part of the us foreign affairs, like in pakistan/afghanistan, lately Lybia soon maybe Syria,
and majority of citizens do not stand up against it, but in contrary they are proud of the war machinery and bravery of the soldiers.

Maybe im so upset about this, because in germany we saw lack of justice and an ill pride on soldiers and warfare
in its most terrible stadium.

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Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Post by Tom Houlihan » Mon May 02, 2011 10:02 am

fridgeman wrote:An Eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is the lesson taught from this happening again, and
no matter how people justify this, it doesnt make it any better.

It seems such assasinations become part of the us foreign affairs, like in pakistan/afghanistan, lately Lybia soon maybe Syria,
and majority of citizens do not stand up against it, but in contrary they are proud of the war machinery and bravery of the soldiers.
But that's just it, it wasn't an assassination! It was an attack on his compound, with the desire to capture him. But, he resisted. The resistance was overcome. That he is dead is in fact his own choice! He could have surrendered when they stormed the compound, but he fought back. That is not an assassination!
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fridgeman
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Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Post by fridgeman » Mon May 02, 2011 7:02 pm

(Reuters) - The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, not capture him, a U.S. national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.

(Reporting by Mark Hosenball, writing by Matt Spetalnick)
Still i think it was exactly this, a kill mission.

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Hans
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Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Post by Hans » Mon May 02, 2011 9:41 pm

Personally I don't give a damn if Osama bin Laden is dead or not, as someone down under said he is probably sipping sodas in Majorca. I want to see the body that will help re-elect Obama.

What I object to is the rejoicing over the deaths of others. The scenes I see of people rejoicing in the USA are reminiscent of the rat bags in the Middle East rejoicing over the deaths of people in the West. I see no difference. Should I celebrate everytime a Russian is killed because some Russian killed my father? Should I celebrate everytime a Brit. is killed because they deliberately targeted the Maternity Hospital in Nürnberg in 1945, thereby killing nurses, forced labourers etc? Should I rejoice every time an American is killed because they killed my mothers cousin the baker, his crime being baking bread during curfew in 1945? Should I rejoice everytime someone I don't like dies. No, I should learn something, anything to try and understand "why".

I think the current jubilation is a blight on our humanity, if such still exists.

Let Osama rot in hell if he is dead or when he finally is dead, but lets not play the holier than thou card.

- Hans

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