Where's Adolf???

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phylo_roadking
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Where's Adolf???

Post by phylo_roadking » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:19 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... omans.html
Fresh doubts over Hitler's death after tests on bullet hole skull reveal it belonged to a woman
By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 8:19 PM on 27th September 2009

Adolf Hitler may not have shot himself dead and perhaps did not even die in his bunker, it emerged yesterday.
A skull fragment believed for decades to be the Nazi leader’s has turned out to be that of a woman under 40 after DNA analysis.
Scientists and historians had long thought it to be conclusive proof that Hitler shot himself in the head after taking a cyanide pill on 30 April 1945 rather than face the ignominy of capture.
The piece of skull - complete with bullet hole - had been taken from outside the Fuhrer’s bunker by the Russian Army and preserved by Soviet intelligence.
Now the story of Hitler’s death will have to rewritten as a mystery - and conspiracy theorists are likely to latch on to the possibility that he may not have died in the bunker at all.
The traditional story is that Hitler committed suicide with Eva Braun as the Russians bombarded Berlin.
Although some historians doubted he shot himself and suggested it was Nazi propaganda to make him a hero, the hole in the skull fragment seemed to settle the argument when it was put on display in Moscow in 2000.
But DNA analysis has now been performed on the bone by American researchers.
'We know the skull corresponds to a woman between the ages of 20 and 40,' said University of Connecticut archeologist Nick Bellantoni.
'The bone seemed very thin; male bone tends to be more robust. And the sutures where the skull plates come together seemed to correspond to someone under 40.' Hitler was 56 in April 1945.
Mr Bellantoni flew to Moscow to take DNA swabs at the State Archive and was also shown the bloodstained remains of the bunker sofa on which Hitler and Braun were believed to have killed themselves.
'I had the reference photos the Soviets took of the sofa in 1945 and I was seeing the exact same stains on the fragments of wood and fabric in front of me, so I knew I was working with the real thing,' he said.
His astonishing results have been broadcast in the U.S. in a History Channel documentary titled Hitler's Escape.
According to witnesses, the bodies of Hitler and Braun were wrapped in blankets and carried to the garden just outside the bunker, placed in a bomb crater, doused with petrol and set ablaze.
In May 1945 a Russian forensics team dug up what was presumed to be the dictator’s body. Part of the skull was missing, apparently the result of the suicide shot. The remaining piece of jaw matched his dental records, according to his captured dental assistants. And there was only one testicle.
A year later the missing skull fragment was found on the orders of Stalin, who remained suspicious about Hitler’s fate.
Just how and when he died is now shrouded in mystery. Mr Bellantoni said it was unlikely the bone was Braun’s, who was 33.
'There is no report of Eva Braun having shot herself or having been shot afterwards,' he said. 'Many people died near the bunker.'
Unknown to the world, the corpse then believed to be Hitler's was interred in Magdeburg, East Germany.
There it remained long after Stalin’s death in 1953.
Finally, in 1970, the KGB dug up the corpse, cremated it and secretly scattered the ashes in a river.
Only the jawbone (which remains away from public view), the skull fragment and the bloodstained sofa segments were preserved in the deep archives of Soviet intelligence.
Mr Bellantoni studied the remains after flying to Moscow to inspect the gruesome Hitler trophies at the State Archive.
He was allowed only one hour with the Hitler trove, during which time he applied cotton swabs and took DNA samples.
The samples were then flown back to Connecticut.
At the university’s centre for applied genetics, Linda Strausbaugh closed her lab for three days to work exclusively on the Hitler project
She said: ‘We used the same routines and controls that would have been used in a crime lab.’
To her surprise, a small amount of viable DNA was extracted.
She then replicated this through a process known as molecular copying to provide enough material for analysis.
‘We were very lucky to get a reading, despite the limited amount of genetic information,’ she said.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
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Tom Houlihan
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by Tom Houlihan » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:06 pm

I caught most of that when it showed on TV. The investigator seemed to be doing a good job. I'd like to sit through it again, with no distractions.
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phylo_roadking
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by phylo_roadking » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:06 am

BTW - the Nick Bellatoni mentioned in the article isn't some fly-by-night archeology student He's the Conneticut State Archeologist/Pathologist!

Ditto for the "Linda Strasbaugh" mentioned...she's Professor of Genetics and Director of the Center for Applied Genetics Technology at the University of Connecticut.

These are people right at the top of their respective professions. Any investigation result published by them affects their professional reputations...a bit like uttering the word "Atlantis" screws a historian's career - if they get something THIS big wrong, they're screwed! They wouldn't go to print if they weren't sure of their results - given the brickbats likely to be thrown at them now!
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by Alex Dekker » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:52 pm

Just three small add ons: Poison and shooting: bollocks, because simply impossible.

Only one testicle: not again... Another made up story.

If the dna of the skull is investigated, why wasn't it compared with the dna of the jaw? It looks good, in the end I just don't know it. Great way to create a rumour and attract viewers IMO.
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by phylo_roadking » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:30 pm

This is hitting the mainstream television news hee in the UK tonight, Sky News are carrying the story. Would probably be higher up the headlines if it wasn't for the Labour Party Conference here...
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by phylo_roadking » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:56 pm

why wasn't it compared with the dna of the jaw?
The JAW brings in a WHOLE different aspect of the issue... http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7#p1380046
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Alex Dekker
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by Alex Dekker » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:56 am

Quite some writing, Phylo!

ATM I havne't got time to read it all (I will do it at a later moment though), you conclude the jaw isn't Hitlers? And the skull is of a woman indeed?
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by phylo_roadking » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:45 am

you conclude the jaw isn't Hitlers?
There's no chain of evidence connecting the FOUR jaw fragments and the skull...except they were found in the same general location - where quite a lot of people were dying that month :shock: Add that (which a judge wouldn't countenance anyway!) to the major amount of bullshitting done by a dentist who wasn't even in the Bunker when she said she was -
And the skull is of a woman indeed?
I've no reason to think the tests were either flawed nor lied about. When you get a chance, Google on the names of the two scientists involved, Bellatoni and Strasbaugh - and you'll see they have a very high public profile, and Linda Strasbaugh even teaches genetic testing techniques!
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by Alex Dekker » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:30 am

Thanks for the answer! Very clear to me. Over the years, I did buy a few books about Hitler's last days. I was visiting Berlin in April and did found a book written by a Russian woman who said she was involved in the search for Blaschke. A lot of bullsh*t was told again, including a double of Hitler and the use of both poison and a pistolshot. This time the shot was fired by Günsche, since Hitler didn't have the guts to shoot himself @{!

I have no doubts about the researchers who were involved in the skull-part, I just wondered if I got it right (without reading the all postings). I'm off to another forum! :wink:
Always in need for info about: Dutchmen in the NSKK, HJ and TeNo.

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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by sniper1shot » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:14 am

Wasn't he seen having a beer with Elvis??
Only he is lost who gives himself up as lost.

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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by phylo_roadking » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:47 pm

Beer???

You mean a mineral water! :D :D :D
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by Alex Dekker » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:31 am

:D He occassionaly drank. Anyway, you indirectly proved, Phylo, Adie escaped death. He still lives under Antartica. :wink:
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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by statemachine » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:06 pm

Likely resting peacefully in Argentina.
An unbreakable man

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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by new daddy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:57 pm

There was a longtime rumor/conspiracy theory that Hitler had escaped and was living in Spain under the protection of Franco. He lived at a segmented section at one of the palaces and had limited contact with the staff and others.

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Re: Where's Adolf???

Post by Cunard-WhiteStarLine » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:27 pm

I just watched an episode of Ghost Hunters International where the team investigates the rumors of hauntings at the Gran Hotel Viena in Miramar, Argentina, which was once the secret residence of many Nazi war criminals. They said at the beginning that a Spanish spy reported seeing Hitler drugged, then he taken to Argentina where he supposedly lived until the early 60s if I recall correctly. Google the episode or watch it on youtube for more. Was interesting because I never heard of this.

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