Alec Salmond please make Scotland independent

[Paddy Keating]

I know Pakistan has nukes. I do read the newspapers, you know. Iran is no more of a rogue state than, say, China, the United States of America or, on a smaller but no less risky level, Israel. I am no lover of Iran and its regime but I think a strong Iran in possession of nukes would bring some balance to things. The authoritarian aspect of their government is unfortunate but they are not much more authoritarian and brutal than the late Shah's regime. The difference is that he danced to The Great Satan's tune and therefore posed little threat to "stability" in the region. The Israelis might start behaving themselves if someone pointed some nukes at them. The deterrent effect worked very well in the case of the NATO and Warsaw Pact countries. Why not in the Middle-East? That's a rhetorical question, of course. At least one can talk to Iranians, which is more than can be said for a lot of the other inhabitants of that benighted region.

PK

[pzrmeyer2]

why are all you wankers talking about splitting up the last remnants of the United Kingdom? You'd all be better off if someone with some sack deceided to give everyone there a purpose besides soccer hooliganism again and reconstitute the Empire. England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Canada, Australia, New Zealand...hell...maybe even India, Singapore, Malaysia. what an economic powerhouse it would be. Sure, you might have to reduce the number of fuzzie wuzzies, turban-twisters, and other assorted types, but what else is new? Maybe you can even head back to Southern Rhodesia and turn it back into a breadbasket. Doesnt that sound better than a few random Scots wearing blue berets handing out bags of rice?
You all need a kick in the ass....

[pzrmeyer2]

----

[pzrmeyer2]

I know Pakistan has nukes. I do read the newspapers, you know. Iran is no more of a rogue state than, say, China, the United States of America or, on a smaller but no less risky level, Israel. I am no lover of Iran and its regime but I think a strong Iran in possession of nukes would bring some balance to things. The authoritarian aspect of their government is unfortunate but they are not much more authoritarian and brutal than the late Shah's regime. The difference is that he danced to The Great Satan's tune and therefore posed little threat to "stability" in the region. The Israelis might start behaving themselves if someone pointed some nukes at them. The deterrent effect worked very well in the case of the NATO and Warsaw Pact countries. Why not in the Middle-East? That's a rhetorical question, of course. At least one can talk to Iranians, which is more than can be said for a lot of the other inhabitants of that benighted region.

PK

Rationally speaking, the most ideal option would be for Iran's nukes to pass Isreal's in mid-air as both states vaporize in mutual destruction.

[Cott Tiger]

OK, so they shouldn't be hanging homosexuals, prostitutes, junkies and other marginalised people

why not?

Cikey Erik, perhaps you agree with the Iranian government minister who recently told British MP’s that not only should gays and adulterers be hanged but they should be tortured first?

From The Times

November 13, 2007

Gays should be hanged, says Iranian minister
Dominic Kennedy

Homosexuals deserve to be executed or tortured and possibly both, an Iranian leader told British MPs during a private meeting at a peace conference, The Times has learnt.

Mohsen Yahyavi is the highest-ranked politician to admit that Iran believes in the death penalty for homosexuality after a spate of reports that gay youths were being hanged.

President Ahmadinejad, questioned by students in New York two months ago about the executions, dodged the issue by suggesting that there were no gays in his country.

Britain regularly challenges Iran about its gay hangings, stonings and executions of adulterers and perceived moral criminals, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) papers show.

The latest row involves a woman hanged this June in the town of Gorgan after becoming pregnant by her brother. He was absolved after expressing his remorse. Britain said that this demonstrated the unequal treatment of men and women in law and breached Iran’s pledge to restrict the death penalty to the most serious crimes.

A series of reported executions of gays, including two underage boys whose public hanging was posted on the internet, has alarmed human rights campaigners.

The Pet Shop Boys dedicated Fundamental, their Grammy-nominated album, to Mahmoud Asqari and Ayad Marhouni, who were hanged in Justice Square in Mashhad in 2005. Graphic photographs of the execution of the youths, who were under 18 when arrested, were released by the Iranian Students News Agency.

Gay rights groups in Britain, such as Outrage!, accuse Iran of cloaking executions for homosexuality with bogus charges for more serious crimes.

Under the Freedom of Information Act, the FCO released papers to The Times about the death penalty being used in Iran for homosexuality, adultery and sex outside marriage.

Minutes taken by an official describe a meeting between British and Iranian MPs at the Inter-Parliamentary Union, a peace body, in May. When the Britons raised the hangings of Asqari and Marhouni, the leader of the Iranian delegation, Mr Yahyavi, a member of his parliament’s energy committee, was unflinching. He “explained that according to Islam gays and lesbianism were not permitted”, the record states. “He said that if homosexual activity is in private there is no problem, but those in overt activity should be executed [he initially said tortured but changed it to executed]. He argued that homosexuality is against human nature and that humans are here to reproduce. Homosexuals do not reproduce.”

Nicole Pichet, a researcher who also took notes of the gathering, told The Times that the discussion began with British MPs discussing the underage gay hangings. Mr Yahyavi responded by saying homosexuality was to blame for a lot of diseases such as Aids.

Ann Clwyd, the Labour MP and head of Britain’s delegation, said yesterday: “It is of great concern that these attitudes persist and we made it clear what we felt.”

Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen and Nigeria apply the death penalty for homosexuality, according to the International Lesbian and Gay Association.

Sharia’s victims
2005
— Homosexuals Farbod Mostaar and Ahmad Chooka sentenced to death. Iran said Chooka had kidnapped, knifed and raped a student
— A woman called Soghra was sentenced to stoning for adultery and being an accomplice to her husband’s murder
— Two men executed in public after being found guilty of a homosexual relationship. A newspaper said they were convicted of sodomy, rape and kidnapping
— Zhila Izadi, 13, sentenced to stoning after becoming pregnant with her brother’s child

2006
— Malek Ghorbany sentenced to stoning for adultery
— Leila Qomi sentenced to stoning for adultery and assisting a man who killed her husband. He received 100 lashes

2007
— Jafar Kiana stoned for adultery. His female lover Mokarrameh Ebrahimi sentenced to the same fate
Source: Foreign and Commonwealth Office documents released under Freedom of Information Act

Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 859606.ece

And Paddy wants these guys to have Nukes!

Regards,

André

[pzrmeyer2]

Cikey Erik, perhaps you agree with the Iranian government minister who recently told British MP’s that not only should gays and adulterers be hanged but they should be tortured first?

Jedem das Seine, Andre. Why are you imposing your rules and morals on a foreign culture? sounds a bit imperialist and condescending to me. even racist.

[Andy H]

Any chance we can stick to the subject at hand, possible implications of Scottish Independence, both north & south of the border, and Scotlands international standing.

Regards

[Cott Tiger]

Cikey Erik, perhaps you agree with the Iranian government minister who recently told British MP’s that not only should gays and adulterers be hanged but they should be tortured first?

Jedem das Seine, Andre. Why are you imposing your rules and morals on a foreign culture? sounds a bit imperialist and condescending to me. even racist.

Erik,

So not only am I an anti-Semite but I am now also a racist, because I believe it is wrong to kill and torture people, even children, who enter into a homosexual or adulterous relationship?

Its not “my” rules and morals that decrees such killing and torturing is wrong. It is human decency and compassion Erik, something which seems to have escaped your sphere of thinking recently.

Regards,

André

[Cott Tiger]

Any chance we can stick to the subject at hand, possible implications of Scottish Independence, both north & south of the border, and Scotlands international standing.

Regards

Andy

You are right, this thread has steered off course. I should perhaps bite my tongue a wee bit more.

I think the point about Scotland losing it's nuclear deterrent though is an important and valid one within the context of this debate.

Regards,

André

[pzrmeyer2]

So not only am I an anti-Semite but I am now also a racist, because I believe it is wrong to kill and torture people, even children, who enter into a homosexual or adulterous relationship?

yup. dont forget "hypocrite" too. enjoy!



ps I take it then you approve of NAMBLA under your "tolerance" motif?

[pzrmeyer2]

Any chance we can stick to the subject at hand, possible implications of Scottish Independence, both north & south of the border, and Scotlands international standing.

Regards

Am I the only one who finds it odd as to which "off-topic" threads are permissible here and which are not?

I find it much more "on-topic" to German/WW2 related subjects to discuss things like Holocaust Industry extortion and exploitation than I do Scottish indenpendence fantasies.

Where's Sid, "the conscience of feldgrau", when you need him to raise complaints about veering off course?

[Tom Houlihan]

Dammit, how did this get so far off topic?!

Get it back on track, or it'll get shut down.

The thought of an independent Scotland is intriguing!

[Andy H]

Dammit, how did this get so far off topic?!

Get it back on track, or it'll get shut down.

The thought of an independent Scotland is intriguing!

Hi Tom

Rather than shutting it down is there any chance that you could just delete those posts that are off topic?

Regards

[Andy H]

Jock wrote:

Most Scots would like to see a strong defence force, to be able to continue our long and proud military heritage, so that we can continue to hold our own on the world stage, and continue to use our position in the world to help and assist those in need.

Britain struggles now with holding its own on the world stage militarily, a Scottish Indep armed forces would be even less likely to hold its own IMO.

The SNP knows that withdrawing from NATO is a PC move because in reality, if god forbid anyone actually threatened them, that the remaining UK forces would come to there help, given the Geographical and Political/Economic closeness.

Regards

[Jock]

Oh, the double post banter...