Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

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Hans Weber
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by Hans Weber » Thu May 22, 2008 12:33 am

Hello Sid
In my opinion, the Waffen-SS was constructed in too varied a way to allow for reasonable applicability of group responsibility.
.

This is not the point. Even if the Waffen-SS would have been made up from 100% volunteering Reichsdeutsche clones, the concept of group responsability would be not followed by any court following Western tradition. It is based on the believe that a close knit group is responsible for the acts of each individual, which certainly appealed to national-socialistic idealisation of Volk und Sippe and their fondness for the elements of a past society, as the concept can also be found in earlier times. Since Renaissance and Enlightment has cut the bonds of the individual to his group and made man the maker of his own destiny for which he is solely responsible, it has been abolished although it has ever since held an appeal, particularly so for moralists and missionaries.

Cheers
Hans

phylo_roadking
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by phylo_roadking » Thu May 22, 2008 4:20 am

EVEN if it was accepted, that would still leave the conscripted Baltic "volunteer"units, Handschar etc. out of the "group" responsibility thing, for they definitely weren't and proved not to be part of any homogenous "SS group" whether racially, culturally, politically, nationally, motivationally...even dietary in the case of Handschar!!! That seems to be another sign of the authour's writing, going by his thesis and what he himself has written on Feldgrau - it's full of very general generalities.
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

Hans Weber
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by Hans Weber » Thu May 22, 2008 6:02 am

Hello Phylo

What I try to convey is that even if we have the most homogenous group ever on earth, still group responsability as a moral concept is flawed and would also not stand up to today's judicial standards (I'm not saying moral and justice are the same by this)

Certainly the Waffen must be called anything than homogeous, especially in the second half of the war. The organisation was running a considerable risk to its identity and also combat efficency by steering this aggressive an expansion course. The tendency to fall into parts with seperate identities is something it shared with the SS in general. We can also see that Waffen SS troops became to see themselves much more a part of the Wehrmacht than the Reichsführer SS was pleased to see. But this is another topic not belonging here.

Cheers
Hans

valhalla
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by valhalla » Sun May 25, 2008 2:36 am

Hello,
Sid I must thank you for taking the time and effort to actually read the book and write a critical and unbiased review. This is exactly the type of feedback I can to this forum seeking, not the kind of rubbish that I was initally exposed to.

First, you actually read the book which is a bonus for anyone who is going to offer feedback on such. Second you offered your feedback in an objective way without any subjective influences entering into it.

I will take on board some of the issues you raise and address them in the second edition which I am undertaking. I intend to expand it with a chapter of the current myth of the Waffen-SS and include such issues as the web forums that exist for this specialist area and the nature of such.

I thank you for the depth of your feedback and sincerely hope that members like you will give this forum some credibility for the future.

Regards

Terry

Paddy Keating

Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by Paddy Keating » Sun May 25, 2008 3:30 am

Ah yes, the veiled threat. "I'm going to write about this forum in my second edition!" How childish. But I am sure Sid and some of the other fellow travellers will buy your second edition. If you slag off this website, the webmaster might even buy it. If nothing else, you're getting a handle on marketing. Anyway, I am sure I am not alone in failing to see how the questions put to you about your doctoral thesis, much of which ended up in your book, can be dismissed as "rubbish", Terry. If you can't take heat, don't stray into kitchens.

PK

*Moderator's deletion*

Paddy Keating

Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by Paddy Keating » Sun May 25, 2008 3:35 am

Note to mods and sensitive members: sometimes one just has to call a spade a spade. Terry Goldsworthy is a serious double-Kleenex number.

PK

*excised*

Uncle Joe
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by Uncle Joe » Sun May 25, 2008 3:39 am

No need to replace that word. I think Valhalla´s view on Sid as "unbiased and objective" was the last straw for I haven´t read a single statement by Sid that would follow strict neutrality and objectivity.

phylo_roadking
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by phylo_roadking » Sun May 25, 2008 7:02 am

Paddy, behave and respect the gentleman's rights; Terry is of course free to publish what he wants.

And if he chooses to do so ignoring the probable outcome of the upcoming legal challenge to Smelser and Davies' work and any legal precedent it sets, then that TOO will be his problem appropriately...
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

Paddy Keating

Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by Paddy Keating » Sun May 25, 2008 10:37 am

I respect Terry Goldsworthy's rights. I just don't take him very seriously. Perhaps that's because I am fortunate enough not to live in his jurisdiction. I daresay that anyone on the wrong end of Terry's creative writing skills and looking at doing time as a result would take him very seriously indeed. After all, Terry himself has told journalists that he intends to use his academic talents to advance law enforcement. And he's just made it clear to us that he intends to stitch us all up in print as pro-Nazi apologists, revisionists and deniers, even if he was careful enough not to put it quite as bluntly. I recall, from my time working for Australian newspapers and magazines as an overseas correspondent, being told that one must be present in Australia in order to sue someone there. And you probably wouldn't get very far trying to sue the Queensland Police Force's pet academic. They do funny handshakes bigtime in Oz. Probably better just to sue Dog Ear or whatever firm publishes any defamatory nonsense by Detective Sgt Ocker Dum. :D

PK

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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by phylo_roadking » Sun May 25, 2008 11:25 am

being told that one must be present in Australia in order to sue someone there
And...vice versa? :wink:
I intend to expand it with a chapter of the current myth of the Waffen-SS and include such issues as the web forums that exist for this specialist area and the nature of such.
Me, I would still wonder at how representative a survey of attitudes on such forums Terry has taken - as he has yet to obviously appear - or his book - on any other major WWII Axis-facing military research forum...
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

Paddy Keating

Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by Paddy Keating » Sun May 25, 2008 4:20 pm

Ah yes, I see. The thing is, you can usually instruct Sue, Grabbit & Runne to act for you in foreign lands but the Australian system requires the physical presence of the plaintiff, or so I was given to understand. If, say, someone defamed me in the United States, I could call the attorneys I know in New York or Los Angeles and instruct them to sue the miscreant without my having to set foot in the USA. But it would appear that I would have to turn up in court in Australia in order for my lawsuit to be heard. That's why so many people and firms without a legal presence in Australia are very wary of dealing with Australian clients. If they bilk you, you have to go there to get your money. Same applies to being libelled by an Aussie. Hence my point about responding to any libel by Dr Valhalla by suing his publishers. It's actually a far more effective method. It's something Jason and others might want to consider where those other two academics are concerned: don't waste time talking to them or thinking about suing them. Sue the publishing house. Instant column inches, acute embarrassment on the part of the publishers because they didn't exercise due diligence when they passed the manuscript fit for publication etc etc etc... Eventual result? Charlatans end up on undeclared blacklist maintained by publishers, especially vanity publishers, because they cost the publishers money. Coming back to Dr Bluster, I am pretty sure that he understands that once he starts making threats of this nature, he risks sparking off a "war" that would probably do his career a fair amount of damage. Many tabloid hacks dislike cops and he would be ideal fodder for them. You reading this, Goldsworthy? Of course you are! In which case, I suggest that you engage your brain now and that you stop making threats. You're not dealing with a load of inbred Queensland pikeys now, mate. You're about to let a genie out of a bottle and I strongly urge you to desist. Argue with us by all means. Pour scorn, by all means. But do not make threats like the one you have just made.

PK

phylo_roadking
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by phylo_roadking » Sun May 25, 2008 4:29 pm

At this point - back onthread, all.
It's generally accepted as being not tolerable. I find it remarkable that a writer on evil can accept such an evil concept. Nürmberg didn't.
Nuremberg AND many other war crimes trials since. As I said - the writer's concept of evil and it's role in the actions of the Waffen-SS seems to step far beyond established judicial precedent.
Terry?
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

valhalla
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by valhalla » Mon May 26, 2008 12:49 pm

It was pretty much a certainty that you wouldn't be able to help yourself Paddy.

Code: Select all

Ah yes, the veiled threat. "I'm going to write about this forum in my second edition!" How childish. But I am sure Sid and some of the other fellow travellers will buy your second edition. If you slag off this website, the webmaster might even buy it. If nothing else, you're getting a handle on marketing. Anyway, I am sure I am not alone in failing to see how the questions put to you about your doctoral thesis, much of which ended up in your book, can be dismissed as "rubbish", Terry. If you can't take heat, don't stray into kitchens.

PK
I have done a bit of research Paddy and for such a learned reader perhaps you might enlighten us as to why you were banned from the AHF? Was it because of your typical posts as above?

Why is everything such a threat to you? You haven't even read the book so your opinion on it is worthless. I haven't even written the additional chapter yet, but you straight away attack. Just what is it you are so scared of having brought to public notice. I fail to see much threat in describing the"nature" of the modern day online forums.

phylo_roadking
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by phylo_roadking » Mon May 26, 2008 12:57 pm

At this point - back onthread, all.
At this point I'm locking THIS thread now. It looks like this can't be discussed in a polite, rational way, or the discussion held to the matter in hand - so there's no point it being open.
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

valhalla
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Re: Valhalla's Warriors - A Review.

Post by valhalla » Mon May 26, 2008 1:04 pm

Before you lock it maybe you could remove the defamatory material that relates to myself. As you seem to be aware of legal precendent then I would have thought as the forum hosting the comments you become a party to the action. Just a little something I picked up when I got admitted to the bar over here. You don't seem to have much issue in deleting the posts of mine and others so no doubt the defamatory ones should be easy to deal with.

Locked