Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

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papagolfwhiskey
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Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by papagolfwhiskey » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:41 am

I'm not sure this is the right section for this question. My question is reality based, I'd like to know some details primarily about how the Heer, marked their uniforms and vehicles to designate "red vs. blue" (or whatever colours they used) during military manuvers.

My motivation is game based. I'm trying to paint up my 'generic germans" army as a specific 'unit' with documented 'historicity'(sp?) for an upcoming Flames of War tournament.

Given a tournament sign-up that will pit my german toy soldiers against other german toy soldiers, ( an event that causes grumbling about 'appropriate opponents' by those who obsess about 'historicity') I hit upon the idea of modeling my 'unit' as an ad hoc formation from one of the many Army Schools out on manuvers.

To that end I'm trying to look up, (and would appreciate any help in finding) answers to the following questions.

What are some large Heer infantry/combined arms schools which might have been conducting company scale, combined arms manuvers during the late war period (post d-day). Location doesn't really matter. Just some general information on where and how large the school was and how long it was active. I understand there was at least one in Holland and I'm sure there were some Eastern front ones as well as ones in Germany.

What colour armbands, pennants etc. if used at all, did the Heer use on manuvers. ie Red vs. Blue with yellow for Umpires etc. Did they paint their umpire's vehicles a special colour or simply put a sign up? Were tanks and other vehicles marked in anyway? Pennants? paint splashes on fenders?

What did the Heer call Umpires in wargames? It wouldn't surprise me if was KreigspeilObserverKommando or something but I'd like to know. My sister who studies the German language but has no military background suggests "Fschiedrichter"

Was there an official or even unofficial standard for the uses of coloured smoke in exercises?
(ie one colour means destroyed vehicle, or perhaps marks an imaginary minefield or artillery strike, another colour has yet another meaning.)

I've tried using the search engine to look up 'infantry schools' and 'wargames' without a lot of success. I'm going to keep hunting but I thought I would throw this up here in hopes someone might be able to help.

Please and thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

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Tom Houlihan
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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by Tom Houlihan » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:47 pm

papagolfwhiskey wrote:What did the Heer call Umpires in wargames? It wouldn't surprise me if was KreigspeilObserverKommando or something but I'd like to know. My sister who studies the German language but has no military background suggests "Fschiedrichter"
I can't help with the rest of it, but here are some bits pulled from Kriegsprache:

Schiedsrichter An umpire during maneuvers, known by the white tape on his headgear
Schiedsrichterstab The umpire staff
Stabsschiedsrichter During maneuvers, the umpire stationed at the unit HQ
Truppenschiedsrichter During maneuvers, an umpire assigned to a unit
Unterschiedsrichter During maneuvers, an umpire assigned to a subordinate unit, usually an NCO
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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by papagolfwhiskey » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:04 pm

Thanks. That's awesome. prompt and useful information. I must have missheard my sister spelling the word for me over the phone since I have an extra 'f' at the beginning of what is essentially the same root word. The bit about white tape on the head gear is more useful than you may have realised since I'm actually going to be painting my objective markers as mini diarama's (15mm) of men from both the 'red' and 'blue' sides arguing with the ump.

er. Sheidsricter

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by Tom Houlihan » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:53 pm

Happy to oblige!
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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by ghp95134 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:28 pm

As I recall, there are some pictures of umpires in Wenn Alle Brüder Schweigen. I don't know the page, but could look in the next couple of days if you don't have the book.

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by papagolfwhiskey » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:02 pm

Unfortunately I don't have that particular book.

know where I might find it? Is it likely to be in chapters or my local library?
I live in one of, if not the, largest Canadian city so I'm sure there's something.

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by ghp95134 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:58 pm

papagolfwhiskey wrote:Unfortunately I don't have that particular book.

know where I might find it? Is it likely to be in chapters or my local library?
I live in one of, if not the, largest Canadian city so I'm sure there's something.
PGW,

It might be in your library -- it's about 12"x10"x2.5" and weighs nearly 10 lbs (just joking ... but heavy). I'll pull it from my stack along with the other two books I was perusing two weeks ago, and find the image. My scanner is down right now, but hopefully I can cite an ISBN, title, and page number for you. If our IT gurus get my scanner fixed, I'll attach the image.

Image
I think it's in this book


--Guy

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by ghp95134 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:07 pm

Just Googling around and found this:

Image
Image
((91) MODEL 1916, SINGLE-DECAL, "TRANSITIONAL" HEER HELMET, WITH ORIGINAL, RED/YELLOW FABRIC WAR GAMES "UMPIRE'S" BAND.

This model 1916, German army helmet has a BLACK, and SILVER FOIL, "Wehrmachtsadler" decal on the left side, which is 95% intact ( Photo ), and is partially covered by the 35 mm. wide, model 1932, reversible, red/yellow cloth "umpire's", or war games' "Kampfrichter's", band ( Photo ); which is attached to the helmet body with three metal clips ( Photo ). The "M16" helmet has the "two-stage" external lugs ( Photo ), and the inside of both sides of the helmet "skirt" has a single "lug", for attachment of the original, WW I style, leather chinstrap ( Photo ). The inside of the left helmet "skirt" is die-stamped with the "shell" maufacturer's "foundry-code", "ET" ( "Eisenhutte, Thale" ), and the "shell" size, "64" ( Photo ). The standard WW I era "three-pad" leather liner has been ( period ) replaced with a model 1931, tan leather liner, with eight, perforated, tongues, and is attached to a zinc liner band ( Photo ). One of the tongues is ink- stamped with the liner's size, "57"
(Photo ). The liner also has a name, "Jansohn", written in ink ( Photo ), and " ? A.A." ( Photo ). The original, 12 mm. wide, black leather chinstrap is still with the helmet, and is maker-marked on the tip, "G. SINGER, KLATTAU", and dated 1942 ( Photo ). The rear of the "umpire's" cloth band has a WW II German 2nd class Iron Cross ribbon bar pinned to it ( Photo ); most likely put there by the WW II US Army veteran who "liberated" the helmet. ( NOTE: In keeping with my policy of NOT "altering" pieces, especially "veteran-acquired" war souvenirs, I have left it in place ). The condition of the "umpire's" cloth band is VERY GOOD, and the M16 helmet, and liner system, would grade just about the same, overall.



photo & text source: http://www.warelics.com/Helmets.htm
--Guy

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by ghp95134 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:13 am

Wenn Alle Brüder Schweigen (Munin-Verlag GmbH, Osnabrück, 1973). ISBN 3-921242-15-0

Page 113, bottom photo. Text: Übungen von Teilen des Regiments ,,Deutschland". Photo shows two wheeled vehicles parked fender-to-fender; all observers (9) looking to the right. One officer standing in the left vehicle is holding a mapboard in his hands; his left upperarm has a light-colored brassard, and the black velvet of his peaked cap is also wrapped in a light-colored band. Another officer wearing an "overseas" field cap is just below him; the lower portion of his hat is covered by a light-colored band.

Looks like my scanner has died and gone to heaven; when I get a new one I will capture the image for you.

Regards,
--Guy

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by papagolfwhiskey » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:12 pm

Thanks again... this is awesome. certainly give me more clues.

I wonder if the reversible red/yellow band signifies an umpire or indicates a side in maneuvers?

Red Vs. Yellow? as opposed to Red vs. Blue?

also It's interesting to have the word 'Kampfrichter'

to sumpliment Sheidsrichter. obviously the same root. "Richter" I think meaning 'corrector' and Kampf meaning struggle. Kampf richter = Battle Regulator?

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by ghp95134 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:25 pm

papagolfwhiskey wrote: "Richter" I think meaning 'corrector' and Kampf meaning struggle. Kampf richter = Battle Regulator?
Always glad to help. By the way, "richter" means judge, as in a legal court of law. So, unless someone corrects me, I would guess Kampfrichter would translate to "combat judge."

--Guy Power

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by papagolfwhiskey » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:38 pm

I wonder what 'schied' means.

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by ghp95134 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:37 am

papagolfwhiskey wrote:I wonder what 'schied' means.
According to Tom Houlihan, above, "scheidsrichter" means Umpire. I did a Bablefish translation for sheidsrichter and received the result: "Divorce judge"!!! When I translated "sheid", by itself, the result was separate. That's automatic translation for you! :D

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by ghp95134 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:52 pm

PGW,

Here's the image I mentioned. Click the thumbnail image to open full-size:
Image

Source: Wenn Alle Brüder Schweigen, (Munin-Verlag GmbH, Osnabrück, 1973), Page 113.

Regards,
--Guy

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Re: Infantry Schools -- Uniforms during Manuvers.

Post by Tom Houlihan » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:47 pm

ghp95134 wrote: "Divorce judge"!!!
DIvorce judge, wargame umpire.

I dunno, sounds synonymous to me!!
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