12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

German Heer 1935-1945.

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RandJS
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12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by RandJS » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:55 am

Hi all,

I am looking for details regarding the 12 VGD during "Herbstnebel", such as regimental strength reports, heavy and infantry weapons lists, vehicles/transport equipment. Any information is appreciated.

Thanks,
Rand

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by MadDog » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:53 am

A long time ago (in the old forum), a poster named "fgopper" posted this information. If anyone knows his email , please PM me.

------12. Volksgrenadier-Division

------------Kdr.: Genmaj. Gerhard Engel

------------Gefechtstand: Hallschlag

------------27. Füsilier-Rgt. [on left wing of div. and reinforced w/ other elmts. of the div. - Meyer, p.416]

------------------I. u. II. Btle.

------------48. Volksgrenadier-Rgt. [on right wing of div. and reinforced w/ other elmts. of the div. - Meyer, p.416]

------------------I. u. II. Btle.

------------89. Volksgrenadier-Rgt. [Div. reserve, and together with Füs.Btl. 12, less one kp, remained in the Frauenkron area - Meyer, p.416]

------------------I. u. II. Btle.

------------12. Füsilier-Btl.(Radfahr) [four kpn., all on bikes - T314-1597, Fr. 231, 26.Nov. ?]

------------12. Pz.Jg.Abt. (mot.) [Dupuy, p. 480, has a total of 9 towed PaK for the div.]

------------------1012. StuG.Kp. [6 ready for use - Meyer, p. 416, Dupuy, p. 480, & Pallud, p. 41. On p. 90, Pallud writes 2 StuG were available on 17.Dec.]
-
-----------12. Art.Rgt. Equipment & bttr. composition as per Jung, p. 347. However, the number of tubes per abt. is merely conjecture on my part, with the exception of IV. Abt. At least some of the pieces were horse-drawn; it was these that delayed Peiper on 16.Dec. - Cole, p. 260.

------------------I. [10 - 10.5cm le.FH 18/40 (three bttrn.)]

------------------II. [10 - 10.5cm le.FH 18/40 (three bttrn.)]

------------------III. [11 - 10.5cm le.FH 18/40 (three bttrn.)]

------------------IV. [8 - 15cm s.FH 18 (three bttrn.)]

------------12. Pi.Btl. (tmot.) [three kpn.; 3. Kp. Radfahr - Fr. 231, T314-1597, 26.Nov. ?]

------------12. Nachr.Abt.

------------12. Feldersatz-Btl.

------------12. Führer-Reserve-Ersatz

------------[On the evening of 16.Dec., Pz.Jg.Abt. 12 & StuG.Kp. 1012, with pi. elemts. and a loaded up kp. of Füs.Btl. 12, were assembled together as a Vorausabteilung {led by Maj. Günther Holz, Kdr.: Pz.Jg.Abt. 12} & placed on the Kronenburg-Hallschlag road, ready to move through Losheimergraben toward Büllingen - Meyer, p. 433.]


Mad Dog

RandJS
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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by RandJS » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:28 pm

Mad Dog,

Thanks for the prompt reply! Any additional information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rand

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by MadDog » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:52 pm

I have a November 12, 1944 gliederung if you are interested. Thats as close as I have.

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by RandJS » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:31 pm

Mad Dog,

That would be great. If you can post or PM I would appreciate it very much!

Thanks
Rand

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by MadDog » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:28 pm

Its too big to post. PM me.

thanks,

Tom

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by John W. Howard » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:31 pm

Hello Gents:
Fgopper was Forrest Opper and he was one first-class gentleman and a font of information. I do not have an e-mail; has anyone sent him a PM lately?? I have not seen him on here for a long time; I hope he is OK. Does anyone know anything about Forrest??
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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by MadDog » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:36 pm

A long time ago, I collected some information from Forrest on the old forum. I would suggest seeing if Jason has the old forum archived, then we could collect all his posts.

I tried PM-ing him from axishistory and here with no luck so far. Another poster has suggested that he fell out of the scene a while back.

Forrest had an impressive amount of information. I hope we can get him back.

Mad Dog

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by John W. Howard » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:06 pm

Hello Maddog:
I never knew much about Forrest other than he was living in the US at the time he helped me with information. I miss him a lot; he was a fine person and an excellent researcher. He knew a great deal about the Ardennes Offensive, among other things. I hope he is well. Best wishes.
John W. Howard

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by Jerry » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:58 pm

John,

I corresponded with Forrest a good bit back several years ago after having made contact with him here at Feldgrau. As I told MadDog in a PM; when last I heard from Forrest ('03 I believe) he was experiencing some domestic difficulties and would be moving soon (he lived in Alaska) and would most likely be without a computer for the foreseeable future so for all practical intents and purposes that was farewell! I was and am still very sorry to have lost contact with Forrest, I'm sure that if he was able to be in-touch with out little research community he would be.

Jerry
When you're in command..... command!

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by John W. Howard » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:20 pm

Hi Jerry:
Thanks for the update. If he went deeper into the wilds of Alaska that would explain it. That is very sad indeed. I hope we will hear from him someday soon. I hope you are well Jerry and thanks again for the update. Best wishes.
John W. Howard

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by MadDog » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:44 pm

Well, we know his name. I need to get off my duff and do a person search. Amazing on how you can find people these days.

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by Jan-Hendrik » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:55 pm

Once we had a good discussion here with dear Piet about 12th VGD in the Ardennes, look out, you will find good info there :D

Jan-Hendrik

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by RandJS » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:27 pm

MadDog,

The the Nov 12, 1944 gliederung you provided shows 9 fully tracked flak guns in the PzJgr Abt. Any idea if these were Flakpanzer 38(t)?

Thanks again,
Rand

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Re: 12 Volksgrenadier Div on 12/16/1944

Post by richard hedrick » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:05 pm

Hi Rand,

If it is the same as the gliederung below, I believe (and I may be going out on a limb here) that the symbol actually represents self propelled and not necessarily fully tracked.

Also, according to Jentz only 9 Flakpanzer 38(t) were available on the Western Front on 1 December 1944 and these where with the 2.Pz. and 17.SS-Pz.Gr.

By the way this is later gliederung (26.11.1944) for the 12.VGD, the quality is poor because I screenshot it from a PDF, too lazy to find the original image. If needed though I can track it down.

Hope that helps,
Richard

Image

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