K.St.N.s Needed

German Heer 1935-1945.

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Gen Oldendorf
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K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Gen Oldendorf » Thu May 01, 2008 10:27 pm

I am trying to duplicate the feat by the late Mr. Joel Parkinson. He built a 1 for 1 Panzer Division in 1:72nd scale, which is now at the Patton Museum. His collection reflected the 2nd Pz Div on June 5, 1944.

My project will be a 43 version. I am looking for sites that provide relevant K.St.N.s. I have been to WWII Day by Day and in touch with Natzieger. While both offer standard combat units, neither holds much on the support units i.e. Supply Battalion, Division Services, Medical Battalion, various repair platoons etc...

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Tom Houlihan
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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Tom Houlihan » Fri May 02, 2008 12:18 am

TLH3
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Feldgrau für alle und alle für Feldgrau!

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Christoph Awender
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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Christoph Awender » Fri May 02, 2008 1:48 am

Hello

If you tell me what you need I search for them and put them on my site. wwiidaybyday

/Christoph

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Gen Oldendorf
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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Gen Oldendorf » Sat May 03, 2008 2:29 am

A list of the K.St.ns was compiled for me by Gary Kennedy from England. I have deleted the ones that I already have. Some might already be available on your site, but are listed with a suspect date.
Divisional Troops
Mapping Section 2251
Escort Company 126

Panzer Regiment
Regimental Staff and Staff Co 1103
Workshop Company 1187
Panther Battalion
Headquarters Company 1150a
Panzer IV Battalion
Headquarters Company 1150b

1st Panzer Grenadier Regiment (armoured)
Regimental Staff and Staff Company 1104a (gp)
Anti-aircraft Company 192 (gek)
1st Battalion (armoured)
Battalion Headquarters 1108a (gp)
Unless 1108(gp) Stab eines Schützenbataillons (gepanzert) 1/11/41 was still valid

2nd Panzer Grenadier Regiment
Infantry Gun Company 1120b
Pioneer Company (motorised) 1118

Panzer Reconnaissance Company
Heavy Armoured Car Platoon (7.5cm) 1138
Supply Company 1180 (gp)

Anti-tank Battalion
Battalion Headquarters 1106d
Headquarters Company 1155d
Three Panzerjager Companies 1148d
Unless I can substitute Stug III for Hornisse in Panzerjager Companies

Panzer Artillery Regiment
Regimental Headquarters 410
Headquarters Battery (Supply Section) ???

3rd Battalion (motorised)
Two Heavy Field Howitzer Batteries(15cm) 435

Anti-aircraft Artillery Battalion
Headquarters and Headquarters Battery 1705
(2cm) Flak Battery 1713

Panzer Pioneer Battalion
Headquarters and Headquarters Company 703a
Two Panzer Pioneer Companies (motorised) 712
Panzer Pioneer Company (armoured) 714 (gp)
Bridging Column “J” 736a
Bridging Column “K” 737
Escort Detachment, Bridging Column “J” 760a

Panzer Signals Battalion
Battalion Headquarters 805n
Telephone Company 976
Radio Company 971
Communication Section 991
Unless your 1/10/37 versions are still valid

Divisional Supply Troops
Commander, Divisional Supply Troops 1208
Heavy Workshop Company 1053

Maintenance
Three Repair Companies 1052a
Spare Parts Company 7737a

Field Replacement
Field Replacement Battalion 1191

Administration Troops
Bakery Company 1277
Butchery Company 1282n

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Gen Oldendorf
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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Gen Oldendorf » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:27 am

Thanks to friends in the UK and Netherlands I have gotten the previously mentioned list of K.St.N.s. My current problem stems that several of the K.St.N.s they supplied were dated 1 November 1943 K.St.N.s. With the reduction of manpower and equipment, many of these K.St.Ns were introduced as late as May 1944, but still were dated 1.11.1943. Why the Germans did it? I don't know. What I am specifically trying to recreate is when the Panzer-Divisions were universally reorganized according to the "Gliederung Panzer-Division 1943", the so called the famous "Type 43 Panzer-Division" on 24 Sep 1943.

Built in company sized units, I am currently finishing the artillery batteries, and my next project will be the Flak Battalion. What I need to know in order to complete this unit is what was in effect for K.St.N 1711, "The 8.8 cm Flack Battery" prior to the 1 November 1943 K.St.N.

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Tanker Mike
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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Tanker Mike » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:34 pm

Gen Oldendorf wrote:My current problem stems that several of the K.St.N.s they supplied were dated 1 November 1943 K.St.N.s. With the reduction of manpower and equipment, many of these K.St.Ns were introduced as late as May 1944, but still were dated 1.11.1943. Why the Germans did it? I don't know. What I am specifically trying to recreate is when the Panzer-Divisions were universally reorganized according to the "Gliederung Panzer-Division 1943", the so called the famous "Type 43 Panzer-Division" on 24 Sep 1943.

Built in company sized units, I am currently finishing the artillery batteries, and my next project will be the Flak Battalion. What I need to know in order to complete this unit is what was in effect for K.St.N 1711, "The 8.8 cm Flack Battery" prior to the 1 November 1943 K.St.N.
Just because a unit was being reformed or refitted in May 1944, doesn't mean it couldn't use the 1.11.1943 KStN tables. The date doesn't matter so much as what the unit was authorized to do. For example, when the I.Abteilung/Panzer-Regiment 3/2.Panzer-Division was re-created in January 1944, it used the November 1943 tables.

In the fall of 1944 when the 2.Panzer-Division was refitted yet again, it used the 1.04.1944 tables not the 1.11.1944 tables.

Check this link for some help with KStN 1711 dates.
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011 ... _1700.html

Hope this helps,
Mike
"It is well war is so terrible, we should grow too fond of it."
-Gen. Robert E. Lee

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Gen Oldendorf
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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Gen Oldendorf » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:42 am

Thanks a lot for helping to clarify things for me. This is why I turned to this site for information

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Gen Oldendorf
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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Gen Oldendorf » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:54 pm

I am still working on my project of a one for one model depiction of a 43 Pz Division circa late September 1943. (Mr. Parkinson took 18 years to build his.) Bare in mind that I am trying to replicate the 'Grund Gliederung" which was the notional plan of what an ideal panzer division should contain, and not merely mirroring one in existence. i.e. it will contain a full panther battalion, even though only 2 divisions had received theirs at that time.

Naturally more questions have risen.
The first is of a pionier company attached to each of the PG regiments. The list friends have sent, and some sites like panzergrenadier.org say it existed. Others make no mention of it. Those that do claim they existed refence K.St.N. 1118. This does not come out until 1-11-43. If such an organization was attached "on paper" to a PGR, would it more likely be one of the K.St.N 714 variants?

For the Division Supply, it is my understanding that it consisted of 1 supply company; 1 heavy repair company (K.St.N. 1053 dtd 1-11-43); and 5 transport companies. Prior to November 43, would a K.St.N. 1052 actually have been used?

Finally, amongst another friends references on the Pionier Bn was a typed Bridge J escort (K.St.N 760a dtd 1-3-43) showing 69 men, two motorcycles, and a light vehicle. Is this a complete K.St.N, or did the men simply ride in the bridge units trucks?

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Gen Oldendorf
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Re: K.St.N. Needed

Post by Gen Oldendorf » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:16 am

In the book Panzer Divisions: The Eastern Front 1941-43 by Pier Battisteli on page 39 he wrote,

"The radio company was reorganized with a revised K.St.N. of 1 June 1942, which increased it's Zug to 4 and envisaged a total availability of three PzBefh III and 23 251/3."

I am looking for a copy of this. I have tried the usual sites such as Sturmpanzer and WWIIdaybyday to no avail. Would anyone know where I can find a copy of this K.St.N.?

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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by laurence strong » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:00 pm

Would love to see what you have built.....I am slowly building a Pz Div as per the Rapid Fire army lists.....


Cheers
Larry

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Gen Oldendorf
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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Gen Oldendorf » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:05 pm

I have also found a 2nd complete 1:72 PanzerDivision in Austria. When l contacted Sturmpanzer, about the missing K.St.N.971, the site owner told me another person named Moser had asked him the same question in 2008. I got his email address and contacted the guy. Where Parkinson’s project was based on the 11 Nov43 series of K.St.N. Moser’s project was the one after that, so neither him or Parkinson’s son could be answer the question.

Haven’t seen pictures on this forum but if you PM me with your email address I can send you some pictures from all 3 projects

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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Tanker Mike » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:19 am

I can't imagine the amount of space needed to do a 1-to-1 Panzer Division in 1/72 scale. I've been working on a 1-to-1 of the 2.Panzer-Division in 1/285 scale and I don't even have enough space to do that.

Mike
"It is well war is so terrible, we should grow too fond of it."
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Gen Oldendorf
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Re: K.St.N.s Needed

Post by Gen Oldendorf » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:29 am

I have only seen a picture of Moser's Panzer Regiment enclosed in glass in one of the rooms in his house. Mr. Parkinson's, if memory serves, was displayed at various model conventions using 6 ping-pong tables. Mine is done in company sized units mounted on foam board. The greatest depth so far runs through the Division surgeon and his medical staff, the Medical battalion, Artillery Regt. staff plate, and the entire 1st artillery battalion at 15 feet.

The width is to be determined as it is a work in progress. Measuring across the 4 regimental plates and the Pioneer Bn Staff plate it is currently about 7.5 feet.

Because of the HUGE baggage train (1150a dtd 10-1-43), and because only 2 Panther battalions had returned to their parent division, I am planing to display the battalion alongside the rest of my project, adding another 11 inches in width.

There is one large hole I would like to fix behind the division staff. I have several models stockpiled for the 3 K.St.N.s that I have, but until I can find a copy of K.St.N. 971 dtd 1-6-42, I will not know if the battalion should be displayed in columns or in echelon.

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