Uniform info request

Fabry · Post by **Fabry** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:08 am

Hi from Sicily!

Can anybody give me any info about the uniform of the soldier in this photo?
Thank you in advance!

John W. Howard · Post by **John W. Howard** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:01 pm

Hello Fabry:
An odd photo indeed!! An odd mixture of Russian and German!! The soldier in the uniform has the rank of Hauptscharführer in the SS, while wearing Soviet decorations on his blouse. I am not sure where the photo was taken, but there were Waffen SS units which contained Ukrainians or Russians(the 14th,24th,29th, and 30th come to mind). It might be possible to narrow the possibilities if we knew where the photo was taken. I am sure someone will be along soon to help us further, but I thought I would get things started. Best wishes.

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:22 pm

Of ALL institutions, would the W-SS have allowed someone to wear RUSSIAN decorations???

I'm sure I'll be corrected - but Gen. Dietl's deressing the naval survivors of the sunk German destoyers at Narvik in NORWEGIAN uniforms....just so they had some "uniform" items distinguishing them as "combatants" under the Hague Conventions...comes to mind...

Fabry · Post by **Fabry** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:12 am

Really strange if it's so!
However I have data and place: the photo was taken at the Roth airfield, near Nuremberg, after the USAAF raid of April 8, 1945.
What do you think...?

John W. Howard · Post by **John W. Howard** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:44 pm

Hello Fabry and Phylo:
I am confused to no end by this photo

Could this man be on of Vlasov's men?? I have seen some pictures of his soldiers and their collar insignia was different; I do not believe they had SS rank insignia or an Armvogel on the left sleeve. The other possibility is that we are looking at another nationality than Russian; perhaps Albanian, Romanian, or Hungarian as part of an SS unit?? That would eliminate the concerns Phylo has; as German Allies they would be entitled to wear their decorations as well as SS insignia. The mystery continues!!!!

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:58 pm

...perhaps Albanian, Romanian, or Hungarian as part of an SS unit?? That would eliminate the concerns Phylo has; as German Allies they would be entitled to wear their decorations as well as SS insignia

Is it just me....or is the medal on the left (the wearer's right) faintly cross-shaped??? Hardly a Soviet decoration, then...

John W. Howard · Post by **John W. Howard** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:50 pm

http://www.worldwar2.ro/decoratii/?article=109 The cross-shaped decoration might very well be Romanian. Apparently some die-hard Romanians formed a Waffen SS unit from the remanants of the Iron Guard. I am wondering if we are viewing a Romanian and not a Russian after all. What sharp little eyes you have Phylo!!!!!

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:07 pm

What sharp little eyes you have Phylo!!!!!

Interesting medal - I do like a good bit of enamelwork (must be the celtic in me) - but it's not what he's wearing! The ribbon on that Romanian cross is too long compared to the pic - and unless he's standing in VERY bright sunlight and the sun is reflecting off it - what he's wearing isn't enamelled dark blue

The ribbons in the pic are indeed very "abbreviated triangular" like Soviet decorations, hence the original misdirection...

Order of Michael the Brave

Have to say that brought shades of Blackadder Goes Forth to mind...

Had a sudden thought; I wonder what the EVENT was as late as April 1945 that had an officer wearing his dress medals???

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:14 pm

I'm now looking at something else. TWO somethings, actually....his LEGS! What on earth is he wearing??? Apart from anything else (the excreble trousers!), his boots are far too high in the calf for even German officers' dress boots...

I wonder - this isn't the Return Of the Czech Uniform Question again??? We turned up a couple of very "thin" sources for other ranks' uniforms for a poster - I wonder what their OFFICERS looked like???

John W. Howard · Post by **John W. Howard** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:48 pm

Hello Phylo:
This is like one of our famous Feldgrau Photo Riddles without anyone knowing the real answer; we could be here for years trying to solve this

I will see what I am able to find out about the German units in the area on April 8th; maybe something will show up which makes sense.

Tapani K. · Post by **Tapani K.** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:52 am

How about Hungarian; the triangle-shaped ribbon could point that way. Take a look at e.g. this page:
http://akm.jjsoft.hu/rendjel/index_en.htm

regards,
Tapani K.

Fabry · Post by **Fabry** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:32 am

Hi guys!

The Hungarian assumption is very interesting!
May be an officer of the "25th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Hunyadi" or "26th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS".
But I don't know if these units were in the Nuremberg area on April 1945...
Can anybody else help us?

CIAO!

laurence strong · Post by **laurence strong** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:59 am

Both SS Divisions surrendered to the US in the Attersee area of Austria.

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:57 am

Well, there's a couple of firm assumptions we CAN make -

1/ he's not German; Both the decorations and the trousers/footwear would point to that.

2/ He's not wearing the jacket for a "post-liberation" prank or anything; leaving aside the dating info we have, he's wearing his decorations and sidearm OVER the jacket.

3/ He's ENTITLED to wear the jacket - AND the decorations.

Ergo - it's a case of crossmatching the "entitled" nations/units to the location/date/decorations. Problem is - as with the Czech thread - we are short of crossmatching data...

zoltay · Post by **zoltay** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:42 pm

I dont know much about the uniform and medals but I have a few details about 25.Division ,,Hunyadi". After moving from Neuhammer camp ,,Hunyadi" arrived in the Nurnberg area in early March 1945. The divisional headquarters were at Holpolstein. The division trained in the area until the 11/12 April 1945 when the Americans Advance came close to Nurnberg. The division was under Wehrkries XVII Nurnberg command at the time and after refusing to fight moved to Steyr in Austria. The Alarm Regiment that had fought at Nuehammer retreated via Halbaut and then onto Rothenberg which they reached in the evening of the 14 February 1945. They were employed for a while digging earthworks before being transported to their original units. The Alarm Regiment apparently wore a mixture of German and Hungarian uniforms and equipment and were armed with German,Hungarian and captured Russian weapons!! Under the German Hungarian agreement Hungarian medals could be worn. So it could be that the man in the photo is from ,,Hunyadi". Ho to be able to see his collar patch

Feldgrau.net

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