German fraternisation with local women.

[Beershark]

The British national press has just published material about the current German government offering citizenship to the 1000's of foreign national children fathered by German troops of occupation in WW2. These articles state that those born of Norwegian and Dutch women are to be given this facility since they were regarded as Aryan, but that Nazi rules stated that French women were classed as "non-Aryan" and that their offspring are to be treated differently. Is anyone aware of details of these Nazi rules re which countrie's females were accepted as Aryan or otherwise ?

[Alex Dekker]

Dutch and Norwegian women were forbidden to marry a German soldier in 1940. During 1941-1942 (maybe later, dates aren't sure) a German soldier could marry a Dutch (or Norwegian) woman, when she wasn't jewish, had a relationship of minimal six months, could life within her family in law, etcetera. To put it shortly, it wasn't forbidden, but it wasn't encouraged either. Children who were born out of a relationship between a German soldier and a Dutch woman, did get a special birthcertificate. As long as the father didn't 'claim' his child, his name didn't appear (!) on this document. So the kid did have a mother (on paper) and not a father. From 1944 on, rules became a bit easier. The period of the lasting relationship became obsolete, so if the woman wanted to marry, she had to life with her family in law in Germany. As soon as her boyfriend came back, she could get married. Needless to say she had to be an Aryan girl. Funny thing is, it hasn't not so much to do with the nazi's, it was considered as a non-political problem, but as a problem of the Army itself!

Marriage wasn't encouraged (nor forbidden) and the children were considered German in the end. The postwar German government did pay millions for Norwegian-German children, somewhere in the fifties or sixties (can't remember the exact date/period, sorry). The money never ever came to the kids or their moms... Dutch (or Danes, or Flemish) women or children were never offered something. Humiliation, offendings, etc. by their fellow countrymen was the best they could get.

By the way, here in Holland there will be about 50,000 or more (up to 150,000 someone thought!) children who were born out of a German-Dutch relationship. They all can get a German pass? If so, zurück nach die Heimat wollen wir gehen! (Since my father is to be considered German, so am I)

[Beershark]

Thanks for your very detailed reply. It is most helpful. I have no problem at all with the extent of the fraternisation between the Dutch** and the Germans, although it must has been on a vast scale in order to have produced so many children. I am still hopeful, though, of learning more about the rules that applied re Germans fraternising with the women of other occupied countries. Mind you, if the Germans regarded the French as being non-Aryan ( with every justification, of course ! ), I don't expect that Italian or Yugo. or other Balkan women stood much chance, eh !

** What is the old saying ? "Walk a mile in MY shoes before you can begin to understand just how much my bloody feet hurt !"

[Alex Dekker]

You can check out the books written by Drolshagen: 'Nicht ungeschoren davon kommen' and 'Wehrmachtskinder'. As far as I know are these the only books written about this subject.

[Beershark]

You can check out the books written by Drolshagen: 'Nicht ungeschoren davon kommen' and 'Wehrmachtskinder'. As far as I know are these the only books written about this subject.

I suspect that this book is not written in English. Is that correct ?

[Alex Dekker]

It's in German, but I guess Drolshagen is historian who wrote aout this subject. There is a Dutch book about this subject (not so very well written in my opion, the author had to do more research I think): Wie geschoren wordt, moet stil zitten ('Who is being shaved, has to sit still'). If you won't read this one, you won't be missing much.

[joefraser]

One famous lady Anni- Frid Lyngstad of the pop group Abba ws one of these children.

Frida was born in Bjørkåsen, a small village Ballangen, near Narvik, in the north of Norway, as a result of a liaison between 19-year-old Synni Lyngstad (19 June 1926 - 28 September 1947), and a (married) German officer, Alfred Haase (born 1919), just before the end of the Second World War and the German occupation of Norway. Lyngstad's father returned to Germany when his troops were evacuated.

In early 1947, Lyngstad, her mother, and her maternal grandmother, Arntine Lyngstad, left her birthplace because of fear of reprisals against those who had dealings with the Germans during the occupation. This could entail not just insults, but also forced separation of infants from their parents and relatives (see War children and Lebensborn).

Frida was taken by her grandmother across the border to Sweden and eventually south to the city of Torshälla, (near Eskilstuna). Her mother stayed behind in Norway and worked for a period in the south of the country, but then became ill and travelled to Sweden to be with her mother and daughter. Synni Lyngstad died from kidney disease soon afterwards, aged 21. Lyngstad was raised by her grandmother alone. However, close contact with her family in Norway continued, and Lyngstad recalls with warmth summer holidays spent with them at her birthplace.

Frida believed that her father had died during the war on his way back to Germany as his ship was reported to have sunk. However, in 1977, the German teen magazine Bravo published a poster and a complete biography with details of Frida's background, including the names of her father and mother. It was seen by Frida's German half-brother, who went to his father Alfred Haase and asked him if he had been in Ballangen during the war. A few months later, Frida met Haase in Stockholm for the first time.
Taken from the Wiki site.

[Alex Dekker]

Thanks Joe. After the war, the Norwegian government got several milions for children like Anni-Frid. It never reached the children or their mothers.

I recently bought Ebba Drolshagen 'Wehrmachtskinder', which is about children like Ani-Frid and my father. The funny thing is, I just found out my father was born in either a Wehrmachtsheim or NSVO-building here in Alkmaar. A small detail I overlooked!

[Annelie]

Children who were born out of a relationship between a German soldier and a Dutch woman, did get a special birthcertificate. As long as the father didn't 'claim' his child, his name didn't appear (!) on this document. So the kid did have a mother (on paper) and not a father.

Was this a special birth certificate....different than ones normally given?
Or the only difference being that there was no father listed?

Just because you have a German father doesn't make you automatically a German. It depends when your born
and what at the time the laws governing that. I know it changed in the nineties!

[Alex Dekker]

Dutch children (born out of a Dutch father and mother) got the same certificates as, for example, I have. All is listed, nothing exiting, so to say. The name, birthdate and parents of Dutch children are/were recorded at the mayor's office in the place of birth, all information was written down on the birthcertificate. Which is stored in the place of birth.

The certificate of my father is first of all written in German. No father is mentioned, only the mother, so my father got his familyname of his mother(!). Second, the certificate was stored in Amsterdam, instead of Alkmaar. It was signed by a German official, which was not needed by a Dutch birth. After the war a few remarks (about his familyname and about his stepfather) were made on the document. Acccording to Drolshagen, my father could have claimed German citizenship (which he did not), only on basis of his birthcertificate. I was lucky enough to get a look at other certificates as well, they all looked the same. All were sorted on the date of entering the German archive in Amsterdam, instead of date of birth. I remember a story told by my father, he told me years ago he needed his certificate. He didn't get it, all he got was a small document or card, with some 'secret' remarks. He wa's not allowed to read them. In the end he got a special letter of the mayor, for use as a birthcertificate.

[Annelie]

Thanks for explaining.

It is hard at times for the children of that period. Sometimes however if your searching for family background
unless you can prove that your the son/daughter of the German father they will not give you family information.
Can be very difficult.

[Alex Dekker]

Don't get me started... Last week, I finally took some time to put the whole story about my grandfather and my search for him on paper (In the meantime, I got the story in short, written for a German newspaper, I just hope they will publish it). It took me almost 10 years to complete the whole story. The WASt did help me as far as I could, so did the Grenzheide Cemetery and the city of Hannover. The main problem for me (and for others too!), is where to look? The official papers (only two) could not help me much in the beginning, since my grandfather was not mentioned on them. All I got was a name and two dates of birth of my grandfather. All were wrong, but luckely I found out he was born in Hannover. I attended them for the third time and I got within two years all of his military career. It was a great start.


Both my grandmother and my father never had any problems after the war. But I have read terrible stories of women and children who had a very hard time since 1945. Not to speak about the postwar searching which ended not luckely as mine. People looking for family or photo's who found nothing.