Germany's finest Hour

Joe Cleere · Post by **Joe Cleere** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm

German's finest hour was probably when XIXth Panzer Corps crossed the Meuse on 13 May 1940, drove south, and then turned 1st and 2nd Panzer Divisions west, leaving Infanterie Regiment Grossdeutschland and the 10th Panzer Division to conduct an aggressive defense of the Sedan Bridgehead in the Stonne Area. Meanwhile 1st and 2nd Panzer fought hard after the turn to the west to break out and advance to the Channel Coast in order to cut off the Allied force in Belgium as fulfillment of the Sickel Cut plan originally envisioned by von Manstein. Successful execution of this operation led to the defeat of France in five weeks and the ejection of Britain from continental Europe.

Spandau · Post by **Spandau** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:59 pm

Avete,

The performence of KG Scherer in Cholm from January 21 to May 5, 1942 was most impressive. Hats off to Generalmajor Theodor Scherer and his men.

Valete,

-Spandau

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:58 pm

I am also beggining to think the exacuations of German soldiers and civilians by the Kriegsmarine from Eastern Germany/Europe in 1945 is a finest hour, as well as the last 8 days under Donitz, when German soldiers still fought hard, to allow civilians and some of their comrades to esacpe to the West.

Alex Coles · Post by **Alex Coles** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:40 am

I heard this story somewhere, where there was something like one or two german soldiers and they managed to get a whole french unit in Fall Gelb to surrender because they told them frenchies about german units coming. That just goes to show how things can be solved 'diplomatically'

Laurent Daniel · Post by **Laurent Daniel** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:29 am

17 SS Panzer Grenadier wrote:I heard this story somewhere, where there was something like one or two german soldiers and they managed to get a whole french unit in Fall Gelb to surrender because they told them frenchies about german units coming. That just goes to show how things can be solved 'diplomatically'

Nice cliche 17th, thanks. Any other one, such as the French soldier throwing his brand new riffle without firing a shot and surrendering?

Fall Gelb casualties:
GERMAN AND ITALIAN LOSSES (whole western campaign until the end of the battle of France) : 156,492 losses (27,074 KIA, 111,034 WIA, 18,384 MIA). This first figure established on 25th June 1940 has been corrected later to 45,218 German KIA (with the MIAs) + 111,034 WIA.
6100 Italian losses in the French Alps in a few days (642 KIAs, 2691 WIAs, 2151 frozen men and 616 POWs)
1236 planes definitely destroyed (+ 323 damaged) (about 500-600 victories for the French air force) + Italian losses
839 tanks definitely destroyed (32% of the 2626 tanks engaged)

FRENCH LOSSES :
302,000 losses (90,000 - 100,000 KIA and 212,000 - 202,000 WIA)
1,450,000 POWs … including 1,100,000 who surrendered between the 18th and 25th June due to the order of armistice of the French government of Pétain, the others 350,000 were captured during the previous battles.
892 aircrafts (the big majority because of AA fire)
About 2500 AFVs including enemy fire, mechanical breakdowns or lack of fuel followed by abandoned vehicles or scuttled ones
Concerning the Maginot line in the Norh-East, 45 'ouvrages' (defense works) out of 53 and 130 'casemates' were still fighting on 25th June. Many surrendered only during the first week of July 1940.

Alex Coles · Post by **Alex Coles** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:01 am

I heard it somehwere, but because I only read it from one site it might not be true and I can't remember the link at all. SO yes, probably isn't true

, and about this thread if it's going to be Germany's finest hour it isn't going to be...

I am also beggining to think the exacuations of German soldiers and civilians by the Kriegsmarine from Eastern Germany/Europe in 1945 is a finest hour, as well as the last 8 days under Donitz, when German soldiers still fought hard, to allow civilians and some of their comrades to esacpe to the West.

My reason being, the war was lost anyway and no matter how much successfull evacuations occured the Germans had no chance of winning.

Laurent Daniel · Post by **Laurent Daniel** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:12 am

17 SS Panzer Grenadier wrote:I heard it somehwere, but because I only read it from one site it might not be true and I can't remember the link at all. SO yes, probably isn't true ,

Hi, 17th,
I didn't meant to agress you in any way, but those fake stories about the coward French soldiers in 1939-40 are one of the reasons why I am on Anglo-Saxons forums.
To fight them.
And I have to admit that, sometimes, I react a bit toughly.
It seems there that you are a kind of collateral damage...
Sorry for it

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:13 am

My reason being, the war was lost anyway and no matter how much successfull evacuations occured the Germans had no chance of winning.

Depends on what you think a finest hour is, whether militarily, honourabbly or morally.

panzermahn · Post by **panzermahn** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:46 pm

I would say Germany's finest hour is during Operation Hannibal of January 1945 to May 1945, the rescue of 2.5 million refugees from East Prussia and Pomerania from the harbours of Pillau, Danzig, Memel. The Kriegsmarine sent all available ships from the largest ones to small boats. Germany's Dunkirk would forever be the most finest hour for those who live through it. Even right to last minute literally before Russian tanks enter the port, the Kriegsmarine accelerated the rythm to grab as many as wounded soldiers, women and children to the ships to avoid them falling into the hands of those barbarous Bolsheviks raping and pillaging in Eastern territories. A Heer colonel and his company of pioneers stood their ground around the defense of Danzig, refused to retreat back to the ships to provide time for the women and children to escape.

The German destroyers nearby the port gave covering fire and hit several of those Russian tanks. Every German soldier capable of fighting did his duty to last man.

Regards
Panzermahn

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:25 am

panzermahn, I already mentioned that, but thanks for the details.

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Wed May 03, 2006 5:06 pm

One could of cpurse say that as a nation, Germany's finest hour was July 20th 1944.......

note the word COULD

phylo

ahmedvonmuneeb · Post by **ahmedvonmuneeb** » Mon May 15, 2006 1:15 am

In my limited exposure to WW2 divisional actions, I would conjecture that Hasso von Manteuffel's defense of Targul Farmos (Rumania, I believe) in command of the Gross Deutschland division sometime in '44 was certainly one of the most masterful German victories ever, in terms of sheer efficacy, and especially since it drew on von Manteuffel's ability to employ panzers on the defense.

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Mon May 15, 2006 1:23 am

indeed, a political victory that is as well, as after the war NATO did a study on that battle to learn how to fight Soviet army just in case Cold war became hot war.

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Mon May 15, 2006 7:50 am

Hi HvM,

Politics have nothing to do with it. Military lessons can and should be learnt from all sources. Had Targul Frumos been a successful Red Army or Waffen-SS action, lessons should and hopefully would have been learnt as well.

Cheers,

Sid.

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:29 am

well... probably, but some armies would treat is as such, thinking other armies are admiring how they fought, studying and learning from it!