Who was Germanys top Sniper in WW2?

General WWII era German military discussion that doesn't fit someplace more specific.
Helmut Von Moltke

Post by Helmut Von Moltke » Thu May 11, 2006 12:57 am

During the Winter War Hayha was shot in the face, putting him onto a coma that lasted until March 1940.
I read on the AHF that it was from Russian dum dum bullets, etc?

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Post by Handzar » Fri May 12, 2006 8:24 pm

I just read about his actions, he killed 500 (?) russians in 3 months... WOW!!!

500 divided by 90 days = 16 russians killed each day!!!!!!!!!

UNBELIEVEABLE!!!




Sadly he died a few years ago, he was among the three other top Finn snipers.

Hail to our Nordic brethren!!!
Semper Fi!!!!!

Helmut Von Moltke

Post by Helmut Von Moltke » Fri May 12, 2006 8:25 pm

I just read about his actions, he killed 500 (?) russians in 3 months... WOW!!!
which book, and who were the 3 other snipers, and did any of the mscore higher?

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Post by Handzar » Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 pm

The info's on the web.

Simo Hayha 542 kills
Sulo Kolkka 400+ kills

and there was one more I think.

From this website:
http://www.mannerheim-line.com/legend.htm

The cuckoo snipers

The most prevailing legend of the Winter War is a cuckoo sniper, a Finnish sharpshooter sitting in the tree, pinning down entire battalions and killing dozens of Red Army soldiers. However, all Finnish sources claim that there were no Finnish snipers in the trees. The argument of the Finnish historians is that the main feature of a Finnish soldier is mobility and fast maneuver in the forest, which would not be possible if a soldier tied himself in a tree.


Finns indeed had observation posts in trees - at the border between the Soviet Union and Finland and at the roads, so that artillery observers could report any enemy movement to the artillery, but Finnish snipers were all on the ground.


It is interesting that the danger of snipers in trees was mentioned in Red Army field manuals even before the war broke out, so it seems that the Red Army only THOUGHT they were under fire from trees, while Finns were actually firing from the ground. One can see this in pictures from battles on Raattee road - several abandoned Russian 76mm guns are aimed at the tops of the trees.
Semper Fi!!!!!

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Post by Le Page » Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:41 pm

I have a reference to an Unterscharfuhrer by the name of Peterhof who allegedly recorded 80 kills as of 13 April 1945. He was with the 32nd SS Div.

Source: V SS Mountain Corps and 32nd SS Panzer Grenadier Division "30 Januar" on the Oder Front, 1945

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Post by oleg » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:15 pm

Handzar wrote:I just read about his actions, he killed 500 (?) russians in 3 months... WOW!!!

500 divided by 90 days = 16 russians killed each day!!!!!!!!!

UNBELIEVEABLE!!!




Sadly he died a few years ago, he was among the three other top Finn snipers.

Hail to our Nordic brethren!!!
indeed it is:) (UNBELIEVEABLE that is)

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Post by oleg » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:17 pm

Taylor Collector wrote:
Helmut Von Moltke wrote:
During the Winter War Hayha was shot in the face, putting him onto a coma that lasted until March 1940.
I read on the AHF that it was from Russian dum dum bullets, etc?
Weren't Dum-Dums banned by the time of the '05 Zulu Revolt? I seem to remember some of the civilians loaded up with 'em sayind the Geneva Convention only applied to white European males.

TS Allne
explosive bullets were used in aircraft machineguns -they were not meant for rifles - but there is a chance that somebody might have gotten hold of them.

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Post by 2nd SS Panzer Das Reich » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:39 pm

Handzar wrote:What happened to Simo Hayha, the best sniper in history?
Was he always on the German side (he was a Finn).
He never served in the Wehrmacht.
Wehrmacht: men of courage

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Post by Jock » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:01 am

Hi Oleg,

Dum-dum bullets are just regular rounds with a hollow point, to help them open up (like a flower) more on impact - like carving an X into the top.

Cheers,
Jock

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Post by oleg » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:12 pm

Jock wrote:Hi Oleg,

Dum-dum bullets are just regular rounds with a hollow point, to help them open up (like a flower) more on impact - like carving an X into the top.

Cheers,
I know what it is - but standard soviet infantry rounds at that time did not include a hollow point at that time. Soviet ShkaS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShKAS_machine_gun machinegun used in virtually all pre WW II and many WW II Soviet planes were issued with explosive ammo in the 7.62x54. The rounds were prohibited for use in general issue rifles – but obviously one could have gotten a hold of them if he really tried (from the aircraft wreck for instance).
A devastating exploding bullet was invented by the Russians in the late 1930's. Called the type ZP, it differed from a common incendiary bullet as it contained PETN high explosive and a detonater. These bullets were quite complex, housing a firing pin and drop safety device as well. They have a red tip. The majority that are found today are ShKas machine gun rounds, unsafe for use in bolt action rifles.
http://mosinnagant.net/r2ssia.asp Another possibility is that Haya was hit by a ricocheted bullet – 7.62*54 is weighty enough to take half a scull off if it hits sideways.

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Post by phylo_roadking » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:37 pm

All, there are a HUGE number of ways to alter rifle rounds so that they do MUCH more damage, upping the hydrostatic shock factor of a hit by anything up to 200%, so that a hit on a limb can cause massive internal haemorraging and disruption....

1/ cutting a cross in the tip, yes....it opens up and spreads the shock;

2/ drilling a depression in the nose, does the same but more shcok because the round punches rather than opens up;

3/ Drill into the head, fill with mercury, seal with candlewax; doubles the weight of the bullet, AND it fragments even more readily!

"traditional" Dum Dums are just squared off, and yes are internationally illegal; but "specialist" types like the mercury filled are very common nowadays because they are a very practical anti-bodyarmour round.

P.S. the use of INCENDIARY rounds, though practical - would get a soldier put up agains ta wall and shot, no questions asked! The use of incendiary rounds EXCEPT in VERY limited circumstances is FAR more internationally illegal than Dum Dums! In WWI the RFC used to carry them for obervation balloon-busting, but had to carry written permission from their commanding officer staing the purpose to which they were to be put! Early in the air war, a total of seven RFC pilots were shot by firing squad for NOT carrying such confirmation when they were shot down and captured!!! And no protests were made or were possible...

P.P.S. regarding the illegality of "converted" rounds...I once stood beside an Italian Caribinieri, and he had three examples of EACH of the types above in his belt loops on duty!!!! Bloody Hell! and this was law ENFORCEMENT!!!?

phylo
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Post by oleg » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:07 pm

P.P.S. regarding the illegality of "converted" rounds...I once stood beside an Italian Caribinieri, and he had three examples of EACH of the types above in his belt loops on duty!!!! Bloody Hell! and this was law ENFORCEMENT!!!?
the rounds you described are illegal for military use - as far as I know nothing limits their usage by non-military agencies. So there is nothing wrong with carabinerri having those.

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Post by Jock » Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:50 am

If you knew what dum-dum bullets are, why did you refer to explosive rounds while we were discussing dum-dums?

Another possibility is that a Russian soldier "manufactured" his own dum-dums, and that you are the only one here going on and on about explosive rounds. Besides the fact a coma would probably be the least of your worries after being hit in the face with an explosive round.

Jeez.
Jock

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Post by oleg » Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:42 am

Jock wrote:If you knew what dum-dum bullets are, why did you refer to explosive rounds while we were discussing dum-dums?

Another possibility is that a Russian soldier "manufactured" his own dum-dums, and that you are the only one here going on and on about explosive rounds. Besides the fact a coma would probably be the least of your worries after being hit in the face with an explosive round.

Jeez.
because the allegation was made that he was hit by dum-dum and I find it to be unlikely

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Post by Jock » Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:16 am

Hi,

I know this is an old-ish tread, but I have to wonder, Oleg - Why do you find it unlikely that a Soviet soldier would use dum-dums?

Cheers,
Jock

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