German Prisoners in Soviet Hands

[Freiritter]

Hello,

I was curious as to the fate of German prisoners in the Soviet POW camps. Namely, when did the Soviets repatriate these prisoners after the war's end? From what I gather, the U.S. and Britain returned the prisoners in their camps generally pretty quickly in the late 1940s. But, if I remember right, the Soviets never signed a peace treaty with the GDR until 1954 or 1955, so wouldn't the Soviets then still hold Germans in their hands until the peace treaties were hammered out? Did the Soviets ever sign a peace treaty with the Bundesrepublik?

Cordially,

Freiritter

[Ernest Penfold]

As I recall, those German POWs that survived trickled back from the late 1940s to as late as 1955. The year 1955 was also important because the USSR formally recognized West Germany. (Don't know about East Germany.) However, I don't know when (if?) peace treaties were signed. There was quibbling over reunification, the East German/Polish border and the fate of Berlin that delayed things.

[Pirx]

My grandpa was released from soviet camp in Austria (Viener Neustad) late semptember 1945. He was badly wounded on arm, and he went to hospital near Hanover (with red cross pass). He crossed again occupation zone and finally returned to home in Silesia late 1946.

[derGespenst]

The great majority died in Russia.

Since when does releasing POWs 4 or 5 years after the end of a war qualify as "pretty quickly"?

[redcoat]

The great majority died in Russia.

The Soviets captured 3,060,000 Germans in WW2,
The figures for how many died in captivity, ranges from the 'official' figure of 363,000, to the 1,090,000 of the Maschke commission.
A horrific total but not a majority.

[Freiritter]

Hello,

The phrase, pretty quickly, was used because I was under the impression that the Soviets generally were slower in repatriating German POWs back to Germany. As for the numbers of German dead in the POW camps, was that due to deliberate mistreatment?

Cordially,

Freiritter

[Bittrich]

Freiritter,

A great account of Soviet POW camps was recounted in Hans Von Lucks Panzer Commander. There is an entire chapter on the subject. If I remember correctly he was returned in 1955. I could be wrong, but it was in the 1950's. At any rate he discusses life in the camp and the harsh treatment. There is another account by an Artillery officer but I can't remember the book title or author.

[Musashi]

The great majority died in Russia.

The Soviets captured 3,060,000 Germans in WW2,
The figures for how many died in captivity, ranges from the 'official' figure of 363,000, to the 1,090,000 of the Maschke commission.
A horrific total but not a majority.

These "horrific figures" are nothing comparing to the number of the Soviet soldiers who died in German captivity. Out of the Soviet PoWs taken in 1941 75-85% died just during the winter 1941/1942. It's just one example.

[Michate]

The great majority died in Russia.

The Soviets captured 3,060,000 Germans in WW2,
The figures for how many died in captivity, ranges from the 'official' figure of 363,000, to the 1,090,000 of the Maschke commission.
A horrific total but not a majority.

These "horrific figures" are nothing comparing to the number of the Soviet soldiers who died in German captivity. Out of the Soviet PoWs taken in 1941 75-85% died just during the winter 1941/1942. It's just one example.

As the German army also released several hundred thousand Soviet PoVs (from non-Russian ethnicities) in 1941 and put additional PoVs into the raer area units as Hiwis, it is more appropriate to say 75-85% of those kept in captivity died during the winter.

[oleg]

According to report written by Kruglov to Stalin, Beria, etc form, may 24th 1950, as of the date of the report : were repatriated 3 344 696 members of Axis forces – out of this number 2 247 368 member of German armed forces (out of this number 1 939 063 are actual Germans) 581 289 – members of Japanese armed forces, 329 093 – Hungarian Armed forces, 106769 – Romanian Armed forces, 21097 –Italian Armed forces, 1969 – Finnish Armed forces; In addition to that 57111 men of non-German ethnicities were used to form national units and partisan groups for fight against Germany . Additionally 214 924 of interned personnel was repatriated..

According to official soviet documents total number of Axis prisoners in Soviet captivity was 3777290; according to Kruglov report- total number or repatriated by the end of 1949 was 3344696. there are some other sources and in general as of 1950 the number of people who were still USSR (remember Axis forces –not German only) was between 519000 and 434000 people. This number includes those who died and those who was sentenced for military crimes –as of December 24 1950, about 20000 people were sentenced to different jail terms for the war crimes.

[Brian67]

As I recall, those German POWs that survived trickled back from the late 1940s to as late as 1955.

That's right. I know of a POW returning in 1949.
And the last came 1955, as you say.

However, I don't know when (if?) peace treaties were signed.

A peace treaty with (West-) Germany was never signed. Before 1989/90 because of ideology problems. The 2+4 treaty about reunion of Germany is a kind of "peace treaty" but is not called so.

[Opa]

My Opa returned in Summer 1949, having been taken prisoner in Jan. 1943.

By the way, Alexander Yakovlev, who as Politburo member knew all archives very well, incl. those closed again, and had more than just the Kruglov/Pavlov report, stated categorically in his Century of Violence about the Kruglov numbers "These numbers, of course, are false," (p. 233 or so), whether about GULAG deaths, etc. Oleg Khlevniuk, a very restrained Soviet archivist (at GARF), in his new History of the GULAG stresses that virtually every number of official "dead" in Kruglov's GULAG statistic needs to be "augmented" because it leaves out so many categories of dead.

After all, it is a Soviet-era statistic, giving the illusion of great accuracy yet put together slap-dash, in part because the local NKVD units themselves fed "tufta" (garbage, an expression I saw in Khlevniuk) to Moscow when sending their reports, in order to look good.

[oleg]

“These numbers, of course, are false “.. without augmenting does not sound much as Yakovelv, whose foundation, regularly publishes volumes of Soviet previously secret documents
http://www.idf.ru/editions.shtml

, and whose volume delaing with GULAG btw did not mentioned anything of the kind. anyway... the above report by kruglov does not deal with dead but with repatriates only… if there some kind of prove that the numbers quoted in this specific document is false –pleased o bring it forward.

I have not read the second book you refer to but I would like to pint out that "augmented" is not exactly self-explanatory –would you care to elaborate?[/img]

P.S http://sovietinfo.tripod.com/ELM-Repres ... istics.pdf

[Opa]

The difference between the number reported caught and reported repatriated, the difference being the uppermost number of possible dead, after deducting those still alive, is low if one accepts the NKVD numbers as 100% accurate.

Now after Stalin's death, the MVD chief Sergey N. Kruglov (he served till 1956) wrote a series of reports for the new government about the scale of Stalinist repression in general. Yakovlev's summary judgment concerns all of these Kruglov reports, based on faulty and incomplete NKVD statistics that undercount the true scale of death and misery. He did not mention POWs specifically on that p. 233. "Augmented" is the word used by Khlevniuk who looked in detail at the Kruglov reports and compared it with what exists in the GULAG archives at GARF (again, in the English translation of his book, I can only trust the translator).

The issue they (and I) have is that NKVD statistics are not of Swiss accuracy. For example, the December 1953 compilation about the GULAG issued by Kruglov in Dec. 1953 for the Politburo recorded as dead in labor camps, labor colonies and prisons 575,000 from 1930 to June 1941. This is the official NKVD statistic. But as it turns out the column "dead" does not include those who died in transport, those who died escaping, till 1934 not even those who died outside of a labor camp informary, etc. The NKVD statistics simply are not as reliable as one might believe, but then what Soviet statistics are for the Stalin era? Khlevniuk goes into details, but Yakovlev summarizes the same objections. And therefore I wonder, why should the NKVD have counted POWs with any higher accuracy than other people under its jurisdiction?

[oleg]

After Stalin's death, the MVD chief Sergey N. Kruglov (he served till 1956) wrote a series of reports for the new government about the scale of Stalinist repression in general. Yakovlev's summary judgment concerns all of these Kruglov reports, based on faulty and incomplete NKVD statistics that mask the true scale of death and misery. He did not mention POWs specifically on that p. 233.

Well Did he care to elaborate on why he thinks the statistics was false and how exactly were Kruglov reports were off the mark (as in by how much?)? Because in the book image of which I posted he says nothing of the kind and even more so uses these reports as cornerstones for his reports. Sounds like Yakovlev tries to speak from both corners of his mouth

P.S. Report on numbers of people arrested and sentenced 1921-1953 were compiled by 1st Speical Section undre Pavlov... I am not even sure now to what exactly Yakovlev referes whne he speaks of Kruglov reports.