60th Anniversary of Victory

Orzel · Post by **Orzel** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:44 pm

Source: Katyn, Anders' army survivors and the IPN(Instytut Pamieci Narodowej) estimates that the USSR systemtically deported and executed over 1 million Polish citizens from 1939 to 1941. Out of that approx 100,000(mostly as malnourished and disease ridden walking dead, in fact wearing the same clothes they were captured in) were "allowed" to leave for Iran in 1943. Also worth mentioning the fact that Soviet authorities allowed for the Warsaw Uprising to be crushed in order to rid Poland of its intelligentsia. Also arrests of all members of the AK, NSZ after WWII as well as arrests and executions of Polish soldiers who returned to Poland but who fought on the Western front. Polish bones lie scattered from the Ukraine to Siberia and Kazakhstan. In the 1990's records were unearthed were several wagonloads of Polish Officers were dumped into rivers on Stalins direct orders. Now for a little history lesson for our Russian counterparts on here, Poland was attacked by the Soviets and we beat the pants of you in 1920. As to what would have happened had the Red Army stopped at the Bug in 1944, I ask you what would have happened had you cowards not signed an alliance with Hitler in 1939 and attacked us from the back, after all you knew you couldnt take us on by yourselves you still could remember the beating we gave you the last time.

oleg · Post by **oleg** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:54 am

Orzel wrote:Source: Katyn, Anders' army survivors and the IPN(Instytut Pamieci Narodowej) estimates that the USSR systemtically deported and executed over 1 million Polish citizens from 1939 to 1941. Out of that approx 100,000(mostly as malnourished and disease ridden walking dead, in fact wearing the same clothes they were captured in) were "allowed" to leave for Iran in 1943. Also worth mentioning the fact that Soviet authorities allowed for the Warsaw Uprising to be crushed in order to rid Poland of its intelligentsia. Also arrests of all members of the AK, NSZ after WWII as well as arrests and executions of Polish soldiers who returned to Poland but who fought on the Western front. Polish bones lie scattered from the Ukraine to Siberia and Kazakhstan. In the 1990's records were unearthed were several wagonloads of Polish Officers were dumped into rivers on Stalins direct orders. Now for a little history lesson for our Russian counterparts on here, Poland was attacked by the Soviets and we beat the pants of you in 1920. As to what would have happened had the Red Army stopped at the Bug in 1944, I ask you what would have happened had you cowards not signed an alliance with Hitler in 1939 and attacked us from the back, after all you knew you couldnt take us on by yourselves you still could remember the beating we gave you the last time.

Katyn, Anders' army survivors and the IPN(Instytut Pamieci Narodowej) estimates that the USSR systemtically deported and executed over 1 million Polish citizens from 1939 to 1941.

Estimates based on what?

Out of that approx 100,000(mostly as malnourished and disease ridden walking dead, in fact wearing the same clothes they were captured in) were "allowed" to leave for Iran in 1943.

1943 –are you quite sure? And more “malnourished and disease ridden walking dead” when you average Soviet citizen at the same time?

Also worth mentioning the fact that Soviet authorities allowed for the Warsaw Uprising to be crushed in order to rid Poland of its intelligentsia.

Yawn …. It has been discussed to death. Nobody allowed anybody anything. The uprising was badly planned, badly executed and was not coordinated with Soviet Army.

Also arrests of all members of the AK, NSZ after WWII as well as arrests and executions of Polish soldiers who returned to Poland but who fought on the Western front. Polish bones lie scattered from the Ukraine to Siberia and Kazakhstan. In the 1990's records were unearthed were several wagonloads of Polish Officers were dumped into rivers on Stalins direct orders.

Which amount totally to what number (and while you at that how this number was calculated).

Now for a little history lesson for our Russian counterparts on here, Poland was attacked by the Soviets and we beat the pants of you in 1920.

Really? So Kiev was part of Poland?

As to what would have happened had the Red Army stopped at the Bug in 1944, I ask you what would have happened had you cowards not signed an alliance with Hitler in 1939 and attacked us from the back, after all you knew you couldnt take us on by yourselves you still could remember the beating we gave you the last time.

If us cowards did not singe non-aggression (not alliance) treaty with Germany German army would have finished mopping up pitiful remains of Polish Army and stop on the line that was Polish Soviet border. All that would have happened before the October of 1939. Now you failure to answer to my direct question dully noted.

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:53 am

Orzel.
Of course i don't belive in 1 milion executed Poles in USSR, but the deportation to Kazakhstan is a fact (about 200 000 people was deported).
Stalin want to move 6 - 7 milion Poles to middle Asia and eastern Siberia. 22 June 1941 stopped this plan. And it's no sense to dig in pre-history, coz we stop in middle ages.

Oleg.
I have strange feeling, that many Russians (not all) think, that they are liked in other Slavic countries. And they are very dissapointed when they find out that is not true.
I learnt that not everybody loves Poland, and like other countries also my country made mistakes in history. And all people shall find this obvious truth obout his homeland. Russians too.
Many Poles have suffered under Soviet occupation and this is also fact. Molotov named Poland "a bastard of Versaille Treaty" and Stalin used to say that "by corpse of Poland we bring revolution to europe". Don't be surprised Oleg that when today if we hear how USSR loved Poland some of my compatriots are mad. Still in Russia you can hear "Kurica nie ptica, Polsza nie zagranica." Russian troops left Poland in 1993 and that's over, good bye, never come back.

The uprising was badly planned, badly executed and was not coordinated with Soviet Army.

Oleg, do You believe that Stalin let Red Army help Warsaw, when he would be informed, and uprising were coordinated with Stavka?

Orzel · Post by **Orzel** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:59 am

Yes Kiev was a part of Poland. And only when The Russian Empire began expanding and partitioning Poland was it forcibly removed. Besides the Ukrainians were happily participating with us and wanted to be part of the Polish Commonwealth as before. In your heart of hearts you only wish to be part of Poland, after all look at our standard of living and look at yours, despite of robbing us for 50 years were still ahead of you. As far as the Polish army being pitiful, well lets look at the stats shall we Poland lost about 400KM of territory in 1 month, and lost about 800,000(killed or captured) the soviets lost that amount in the first two days of operation Barbarosa. So whos pitiful? Not only that our troops went on to victory by escaping to France and Great Britain what would you have done had the Germans captured Moscow? If you wish to compare the Polish Army against the Red Army look at our defence of Lwow in 1920 or Warsaw, and there youll have a clear answer as to whos a better soldier. Or if you want to be more modern look at defence of Grodno or Bialystok in 1939. The problem with you Russians is pretty much the same as with Americans you are fed from birth how great and wonderful you are and you start crying like little babies when the truth is tolld to you. now here is the truth in most Poles eyes you are crude, illiterate, dirty, lice infested, mongoloid hordes. I remember my grandmother telling me that glorious red army when liberating my grandfather's estates, had their guns on pieces of strings, sometimes with only scraps of cloth wrapped around their feet, covered with lice, a smell which could be felt a 1/4 mile away and they drank the entire supply of perfume of my great-grandmother. In Wroclaw there's a monument to the glorious red army soldiers who died liberating the city, what the monument does not mention that many of the "casualties" were caused by drinking of industrial alcohol from the train cisterns. Most locals in the city are very aware of the story and they point out this humorous point to all tourists(as they did to me in 2000).

BTWY Also as a side note Polish women dont cross the border into Russia to become hookers but Russian women come to Poland in droves I wonder why? Maybe decades of communism shrank your little "comissars"?

oleg · Post by **oleg** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:37 am

Orzel wrote:Yes Kiev was a part of Poland. And only when The Russian Empire began expanding and partitioning Poland was it forcibly removed. Besides the Ukrainians were happily participating with us and wanted to be part of the Polish Commonwealth as before. In your heart of hearts you only wish to be part of Poland, after all look at our standard of living and look at yours, despite of robbing us for 50 years were still ahead of you. As far as the Polish army being pitiful, well lets look at the stats shall we Poland lost about 400KM of territory in 1 month, and lost about 800,000(killed or captured) the soviets lost that amount in the first two days of operation Barbarosa. So whos pitiful? Not only that our troops went on to victory by escaping to France and Great Britain what would you have done had the Germans captured Moscow? If you wish to compare the Polish Army against the Red Army look at our defence of Lwow in 1920 or Warsaw, and there youll have a clear answer as to whos a better soldier. Or if you want to be more modern look at defence of Grodno or Bialystok in 1939. The problem with you Russians is pretty much the same as with Americans you are fed from birth how great and wonderful you are and you start crying like little babies when the truth is tolld to you. now here is the truth in most Poles eyes you are crude, illiterate, dirty, lice infested, mongoloid hordes. I remember my grandmother telling me that glorious red army when liberating my grandfather's estates, had their guns on pieces of strings, sometimes with only scraps of cloth wrapped around their feet, covered with lice, a smell which could be felt a 1/4 mile away and they drank the entire supply of perfume of my great-grandmother. In Wroclaw there's a monument to the glorious red army soldiers who died liberating the city, what the monument does not mention that many of the "casualties" were caused by drinking of industrial alcohol from the train cisterns. Most locals in the city are very aware of the story and they point out this humorous point to all tourists(as they did to me in 2000).

BTWY Also as a side note Polish women dont cross the border into Russia to become hookers but Russian women come to Poland in droves I wonder why? Maybe decades of communism shrank your little "comissars"?

Yes Kiev was a part of Poland. And only when The Russian Empire began expanding and partitioning Poland was it forcibly removed. Besides the Ukrainians were happily participating with us and wanted to be part of the Polish Commonwealth as before.

Fournier of Russian Empire was Kievan Russ – Kievan being the key word. As in Kiev? In general calling Kiev Polish because it was conquered at one time and held for a while is like calling Warsaw Russian.

In your heart of hearts you only wish to be part of Poland, after all look at our standard of living and look at yours, despite of robbing us for 50 years were still ahead of you.

I there was one think I never wished for that would probably be it. And if anybody got Robbed that was Russia –that is by the way why you were ahead of us –now that said compare average debt level of present-day statistic Pole to that of statistic Russian –then come back to me about the standards of living.

As far as the Polish army being pitiful, well lets look at the stats shall we Poland lost about 400KM of territory in 1 month, and lost about 800,000(killed or captured) the soviets lost that amount in the first two days of operation Barbarosa. So whos pitiful?

The army that loses the country is pitiful, the army that rebounds and strikes back – is not.

Not only that our troops went on to victory by escaping to France and Great Britain what would you have done had the Germans captured Moscow?

Yes but we did not let them capture Moscow did we? In fact we outright defeated them in front of Moscow.

If you wish to compare the Polish Army against the Red Army look at our defence of Lwow in 1920 or Warsaw, and there youll have a clear answer as to whos a better soldier.

So the fact that Poles mange to launch a counterstroke against the Army that outran its supply lines is an indicator that Poles are better soldiers? (btw did not that happen after you ran away from Ukraine and Byelorussia?)

Or if you want to be more modern look at defence of Grodno or Bialystok in 1939.

You lost both.

The problem with you Russians is pretty much the same as with Americans you are fed from birth how great and wonderful you are and you start crying like little babies when the truth is tolld to you

Don’t know about the Americans… but where is the truth you’ve alluded to?

now here is the truth in most Poles eyes you are crude, illiterate, dirty, lice infested, mongoloid hordes. I remember my grandmother telling me that glorious red army when liberating my grandfather's estates, had their guns on pieces of strings, sometimes with only scraps of cloth wrapped around their feet, covered with lice, a smell which could be felt a 1/4 mile away and they drank the entire supply of perfume of my great-grandmother. In Wroclaw there's a monument to the glorious red army soldiers who died liberating the city, what the monument does not mention that many of the "casualties" were caused by drinking of industrial alcohol from the train cisterns. Most locals in the city are very aware of the story and they point out this humorous point to all tourists(as they did to me in 2000).

Gee wzi will I get an answer what would have to these Poles if the Red Army stopped on Bug in 1944? Or you just going to ignore the question altogether?

BTWY Also as a side note Polish women dont cross the border into Russia to become hookers but Russian women come to Poland in droves I wonder why? Maybe decades of communism shrank your little "comissars"?

Come to Moscow I’ll arrange for you to meet quite a few. As for my “commissar” you know I would like to tell you the same but in order for something to be shrunk –that something has to be there to begin with –let me guess you favorite song if I only had a brain? 

oleg · Post by **oleg** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:44 am

Pirx wrote:Orzel.
Of course i don't belive in 1 milion executed Poles in USSR, but the deportation to Kazakhstan is a fact (about 200 000 people was deported).
Stalin want to move 6 - 7 milion Poles to middle Asia and eastern Siberia. 22 June 1941 stopped this plan. And it's no sense to dig in pre-history, coz we stop in middle ages.

Oleg.
I have strange feeling, that many Russians (not all) think, that they are liked in other Slavic countries. And they are very dissapointed when they find out that is not true.
I learnt that not everybody loves Poland, and like other countries also my country made mistakes in history. And all people shall find this obvious truth obout his homeland. Russians too.
Many Poles have suffered under Soviet occupation and this is also fact. Molotov named Poland "a bastard of Versaille Treaty" and Stalin used to say that "by corpse of Poland we bring revolution to europe". Don't be surprised Oleg that when today if we hear how USSR loved Poland some of my compatriots are mad. Still in Russia you can hear "Kurica nie ptica, Polsza nie zagranica." Russian troops left Poland in 1993 and that's over, good bye, never come back.

The uprising was badly planned, badly executed and was not coordinated with Soviet Army.
Oleg, do You believe that Stalin let Red Army help Warsaw, when he would be informed, and uprising were coordinated with Stavka?

Oleg.
I have strange feeling, that many Russians (not all) think, that they are liked in other Slavic countries. And they are very dissapointed when they find out that is not true.

You know I find your notion that a citizenship (any citizenship) warrants love of the population of some countries rather amusing. To your specific question I have to say no –we don’t think that in mass although open hostility occasionally surprising.

I learnt that not everybody loves Poland, and like other countries also my country made mistakes in history. And all people shall find this obvious truth obout his homeland. Russians too.

Aha … Especially something like this… http://www.wirtualnapolonia.com/teksty.asp?TekstID=8416

Many Poles have suffered under Soviet occupation and this is also fact. Molotov named Poland "a bastard of Versaille Treaty" and Stalin used to say that "by corpse of Poland we bring revolution to europe". Don't be surprised Oleg that when today if we hear how USSR loved Poland some of my compatriots are mad. Still in Russia you can hear "Kurica nie ptica, Polsza nie zagranica." Russian troops left Poland in 1993 and that's over, good bye, never come back.

Here is something to Ponder about –if it was not for USSR there would be no Poland. Like it or not – I don’t really care.

Oleg, do You believe that Stalin let Red Army help Warsaw, when he would be informed, and uprising were coordinated with Stavka?

Well Red Army did not stop before Vilnus –did it?

oleg · Post by **oleg** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:53 am

Oh and Orzel -this one is for you http://www.nie.com.pl/main.php?dzial=ak ... cz=Rosj%B1

I guess at least some Poles still have sense of humor :)

Orzel · Post by **Orzel** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:45 am

Urban is not a Pole but a Communist and a Jew.

oleg · Post by **oleg** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:01 pm

Orzel wrote:Urban is not a Pole but a Communist and a Jew.

Is he Polish or Israeli citizen? If he is a polish citizen who gives a hoot what ethnicity he belongs to. Or Polish Jew is wrong by definition? As for his political affiliations… he is too funny for a communist. This guys usually have their sense of humor surgically removed.

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:13 am

you are crude, illiterate, dirty, lice infested, mongoloid hordes.

Could be a Goebbels quote...

a Communist and a Jew

...this one too...

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:02 am

Dear Oleg!

Mr Marian Kaluski is Australian, and stupid nazi, dummkopf, and Hitlers admirer. Please don't listen to him as i don't listen to mr Zyrinovski!
About Vilnius. Home Army liberate Vilnius, then enter Red Army, imprison Polish partisants, and killed their leaders.

Beppo Schmidt · Post by **Beppo Schmidt** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:53 am

Mr Marian Kaluski is Australian, and stupid nazi, dummkopf, and Hitlers admirer. Please don't listen to him as i don't listen to mr Zyrinovski!

Who are Kaluski and Zyrinovski?

you are crude, illiterate, dirty, lice infested, mongoloid hordes.

a Communist and a Jew

Orzel, you act as though those dastardly Germans and/or Russians are out to get poor little Poland, and then you are the one making the racist posts.

And whatever one may think of Stalin and his policies, and the Soviet occupation of Poland, the USSR suffered the most casualties of anyone in WWII, so I think calling them "cowards" is quite baseless.

oleg · Post by **oleg** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:12 am

Pirx wrote:Dear Oleg!

Mr Marian Kaluski is Australian, and stupid nazi, dummkopf, and Hitlers admirer. Please don't listen to him as i don't listen to mr Zyrinovski!
About Vilnius. Home Army liberate Vilnius, then enter Red Army, imprison Polish partisants, and killed their leaders.

I never listened to Zhirinovskiy in the first place–why would you want even bring him into discussion? That said I manage to get enough information from Polish newspapers to get an impression that as far as mass-media goes –it is full of genuine, practically genetic, hostility towards Russia. It is of course you right to dislike anyone you wish, but with such kind of attitude screams of Polish public figures about returned Russian dislikes of Poles sound somewhat hypocritical. Most Russians several years ago (say 3 or 4) did not care about Poland one way or the other- but now it is changing –mostly due to the sustained effort on your part and not into the favor of Poland.

In regards to Vilnus.. It (just as Lvov) would have been captured by the Red Army with or without the AK. Now that said AK was just as anti-Soviet as it was anti-German. On part of the Soviet government it would be stupidity bordering on criminality to assist hostile party in its grab for power.

As for Kaluski ... granted: he is probably not the representative of Polish majority but he got published -so at least someone found him interesting...
Your compatriot Orzel. with ideas like

You Russian Peasants will never learn that no matter what brutal, monogoloid torture methods you impose on us you will never break a true Polish Aristocrats. And that is why in comparison to a Pole a Russian will always be a dungfooted, illiterate, crude, vodka drinking, crude Peasant.

is most srely not that removed from the Kaluski...

oleg · Post by **oleg** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:16 am

Beppo Schmidt wrote:
Mr Marian Kaluski is Australian, and stupid nazi, dummkopf, and Hitlers admirer. Please don't listen to him as i don't listen to mr Zyrinovski!
Who are Kaluski and Zyrinovski?

you are crude, illiterate, dirty, lice infested, mongoloid hordes.

a Communist and a Jew
Orzel, you act as though those dastardly Germans and/or Russians are out to get poor little Poland, and then you are the one making the racist posts.

And whatever one may think of Stalin and his policies, and the Soviet occupation of Poland, the USSR suffered the most casualties of anyone in WWII, so I think calling them "cowards" is quite baseless.

Kaluski is an author of the article that I linked in my replay to Pirx. The main idea of this opus was that Ukraine is dangerous to Poland therefore it should be split in halves.

Zhirinovskiy is full of hot air Politician who is know for his wild proclamations and propositions in Russian parliament. He passed his zenith quite a while ago.

Beppo Schmidt · Post by **Beppo Schmidt** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:29 pm

If this forum were more moderated Orzel would have been banned quite a while back for his racist posts.