Many might wonder why there is so much discussion on the subject of World War 2. My personal opinion is that the Allied powers have weaved a myth/lie around the second world war.
The Allies waged war on Germany for ENTIRELY political reasons. Hitler's crimes were NOT the issue. Even in the latter days of World War 2, Eisenhower REFUSED to bomb concentrations camps and stop the death machine, even though the Jews begged America/Britain to stop the concentration camp monster. The Allies wanted to defeat GERMANY and Hitler, not simply Hitler.
After the end of the war the Allies wrote a new story surrounding those years. They claimed that they went to war to stop Hitler's evil. To this day the Allies do not object to imperial conquest, witness Iraq and Israel.
What were Hitler's REAL crimes? He foresaw imperial conquest at the EXPENSE of the Allied powers and this is what grieved them so.
More than half a century later the Americans and the Brits continue to tell the world how we should all be eternally grateful to them for saving us in mankind's 'darkest hour'. WORD TO AMERICA AND BRITAIN: MANKIND LIVES IN DARKNESS. Mankind is so dark the once God Himself destroyed civilization because of it's evil. Don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah. Hitler was mankind's darkest hour? Please. The darkness of mankind has been pitch black since the fall of man in the garden of Eden.
In conclusion I would say that none of the Allied lies would be a problem if it weren't for the fact that the Allies claim to be morally superior to Germans and the rest of the world. If they want to make up stories about saving the world during World War 2 and how the Almighty God/Jesus Christ could not stop Hitler that's fine, but they should stop foisting their lies on other people and the rest of the world in general.
America and Britain did NOT save the world. Hitler's time came at the Almighty God's/Jesus Christ's judgement. If God did not step in, Germany/Hitler would surely have crushed the Allies.
Even today the Allies cannot stand up for what is right. Look at Darfur. While some terrorists disturb the peace in Bush's beloved oil country Iraq, genocide is being committed in Darfur, Sudan and the Americans/British refuse to send troops there because they couldn't care less about black people, much less black people without any oil.
Shame on you America and Britain. Shame, shame, shame, PUPPY shame ....
Why the Allied history of World War 2 is misleading ....
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Why the Allied history of World War 2 is misleading ....
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Gebirgsjaeger
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Last edited by Gebirgsjaeger on Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Der Gott, der Eisen wachsen ließ wollte keine Knechte!
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michael kenny
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Quote:
"America and Britain did NOT save the world. Hitler's time came at the Almighty God's/Jesus Christ's judgement. If God did not step in, Germany/Hitler would surely have crushed the Allies"
Yes thats right. I am amazes I never realised this before. Great post and very informative. You and gobshitejager should get on well together seeing as how you are the real ''keepers of the truth'. Maybe God put you here personaly to correct all these slanders about The Third Reich?
I shall pray for you.
"America and Britain did NOT save the world. Hitler's time came at the Almighty God's/Jesus Christ's judgement. If God did not step in, Germany/Hitler would surely have crushed the Allies"
Yes thats right. I am amazes I never realised this before. Great post and very informative. You and gobshitejager should get on well together seeing as how you are the real ''keepers of the truth'. Maybe God put you here personaly to correct all these slanders about The Third Reich?
I shall pray for you.
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Christoph Awender
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Two points:
1) "Allied history" presupposes that there is some conspiracy to tell it only one way. Yet the best stuff I've read on the German Army came primarily from British sources (Reyonlds, Hastings, McKee et al). The Allied governments naturally see themselves as 'good guys,' they are to my eyes, hardly good guys but at least they never systematized murder as did the Nazis and communists so one must circumspect in cheering those who did while not idolizing those who did not.
2) As a practising Christian I must deplore your use of God's name in a political tirade. To some this suggests that one must be of this or that political persuasion or even that one must believe history as you believe it to be a Christian which of course is nonsense.
I suggest as a friend that you refrain from using God in political discussions where you will most certainly be involved in controversy. His name is more important than your politics (or mine). Politics and opinions come and go with the ages - neither is important enough to dare bringing God into it without scriptural support. (and even then its hardly appropriate to a military history forum)
cheers
Reb
Two points:
1) "Allied history" presupposes that there is some conspiracy to tell it only one way. Yet the best stuff I've read on the German Army came primarily from British sources (Reyonlds, Hastings, McKee et al). The Allied governments naturally see themselves as 'good guys,' they are to my eyes, hardly good guys but at least they never systematized murder as did the Nazis and communists so one must circumspect in cheering those who did while not idolizing those who did not.
2) As a practising Christian I must deplore your use of God's name in a political tirade. To some this suggests that one must be of this or that political persuasion or even that one must believe history as you believe it to be a Christian which of course is nonsense.
I suggest as a friend that you refrain from using God in political discussions where you will most certainly be involved in controversy. His name is more important than your politics (or mine). Politics and opinions come and go with the ages - neither is important enough to dare bringing God into it without scriptural support. (and even then its hardly appropriate to a military history forum)
cheers
Reb
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OberleutenantAG
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(wrapping my head in duct tape before it explodes)
Okay. Is that Michael Moore? What propaganda. Are you really in the US or are you writing from China or Cuba? What nonsense!
To say that the US and Britian will not send troops to Sudan because we hate black people is ludicrus. It was France that made the US change the UN resolution denouncing the violence in Sudan, taking out the reference to sanctions!! And why don't you complain that no other country has sent troops? Not Canada, not Germany, not Australia, and especially not France. If you want to talk about a bigotred or racist country talk about France. The level of anti-semitism there has reached intolerable levels. They were a colonial ruler way before the US even existed. Those countries, since they have a no-war clause in their constitutions, are the premiere peacekeeping contributors. All of our troops are fighting terrorism. Complain about them, not just your own country. We would send them if we could.
^
Okay. Is that Michael Moore? What propaganda. Are you really in the US or are you writing from China or Cuba? What nonsense!
To say that the US and Britian will not send troops to Sudan because we hate black people is ludicrus. It was France that made the US change the UN resolution denouncing the violence in Sudan, taking out the reference to sanctions!! And why don't you complain that no other country has sent troops? Not Canada, not Germany, not Australia, and especially not France. If you want to talk about a bigotred or racist country talk about France. The level of anti-semitism there has reached intolerable levels. They were a colonial ruler way before the US even existed. Those countries, since they have a no-war clause in their constitutions, are the premiere peacekeeping contributors. All of our troops are fighting terrorism. Complain about them, not just your own country. We would send them if we could.
^
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Beppo Schmidt
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FanOfGermanMilitaryMight
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Mr. Kenny ....
Regarding your claim that I am interested in correcting 'slander about the Third Reich', or perhaps you consider that I view 'them' as the 'Glorious' Third Reich, I should point out to you that you are guilty of yet more narrow mindedness on the part of Allied enthusiasts. Consider the following sentence: Hitler was an evil man. Now consider this next sentence: The Third Reich belonged to and was the creation of Hitler. Combining these two sentences and their content, what part makes you conclude that I am 'correcting slander' of the Third Reich, or for that matter what you would really like to say 'defending' the Third Reich. If we are all agreed that Hitler was an evil man, then it seems quite illogical for you to infer that I am defending him or his regime. Please consider.
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern" General Heinz Guderian
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Grunt ....
Regarding the idea that God might be German, I would say the following. To be 'German' is a descriptor that applies to human beings and their humanity alone. God is, well simply speaking, God. Or should I say the Almighty God. Etc. etc. Human beings are but human beings, so it is not appropriate to use human terms/qualifications to describe God. God IS.
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern" General Heinz Guderian
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To Reb ....
Dear Sir,
I understand your concern that I might be attempting to sully the name of God by throwing politics upon him, but I suggest that this concern be more relevant to people like Bush who has consistently associated himself and his politics with the religion of Christianity.
You say that I should be careful not to include religion in political discussion. Well I say to you that people like Bush force the two into the same arena. God is indeed so far above politics, that the two are essentially unrelated, but the fact remains that people like Bush have succeeded in associating a certain brand of politics with a certain religion.
It thus becomes necessary for a discussion to take place that clearly establishes the fact that the two are really unrelated. In other words, I am saying that it is not I who brings religion into politics, but the 'other side' and I am merely responding to the need to correct this evil association.
You say I am guilty of failing to substantiate my points with scriptural support. I will explain this as per the following. My arguments are based on some very fundamental tenets of Christianity AND THE SCRIPTURES. Those tenets that I like to use most often are that God is OMNIPOTENT, that he is OMNISCIENT and that he is OMNIPRESENT. Those people who are unfamiliar with those parts of scripture that establish these truths, are unlikely to have much respect for Christianity or perhaps even religion itself. Those who are familiar, should be very fundamentally familiar.
A military history forum? This discussion has only focussed directly on God because you disagree with the manner in which I assert the most basic of truths. I do not attempt to posit these truths as a point of discussion, but I do think that the existence of God has a bearing on history, especially when history is being twisted to suit the purposes of man.
I understand your concern that I might be attempting to sully the name of God by throwing politics upon him, but I suggest that this concern be more relevant to people like Bush who has consistently associated himself and his politics with the religion of Christianity.
You say that I should be careful not to include religion in political discussion. Well I say to you that people like Bush force the two into the same arena. God is indeed so far above politics, that the two are essentially unrelated, but the fact remains that people like Bush have succeeded in associating a certain brand of politics with a certain religion.
It thus becomes necessary for a discussion to take place that clearly establishes the fact that the two are really unrelated. In other words, I am saying that it is not I who brings religion into politics, but the 'other side' and I am merely responding to the need to correct this evil association.
You say I am guilty of failing to substantiate my points with scriptural support. I will explain this as per the following. My arguments are based on some very fundamental tenets of Christianity AND THE SCRIPTURES. Those tenets that I like to use most often are that God is OMNIPOTENT, that he is OMNISCIENT and that he is OMNIPRESENT. Those people who are unfamiliar with those parts of scripture that establish these truths, are unlikely to have much respect for Christianity or perhaps even religion itself. Those who are familiar, should be very fundamentally familiar.
A military history forum? This discussion has only focussed directly on God because you disagree with the manner in which I assert the most basic of truths. I do not attempt to posit these truths as a point of discussion, but I do think that the existence of God has a bearing on history, especially when history is being twisted to suit the purposes of man.
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern" General Heinz Guderian
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To Reb part two ....
'Allied History' may indeed suggest a conspiracy, but I am loathe to use the word conspiracy as this word tends to be associated with grand schemes the order of which can only be engineered by supernatural beings. 'Allied History' is not so much a conspiracy as it is a 'romantic' notion and an utter delusion.
You seem quite fixated with the idea that I admire either the Third Reich, Hitler or the principles espoused by the former two. Yet I myself cannot count the number of times that I have repeated myself in stating time and again that Hitler, the Nazis and the Third Reich were EVIL. To their very core that is. It thus becomes very difficult for me to engage in discussion if you continue to assume that I 'admire' the aforementioned parties of evil. 'At the end of the day' I find myself repeating the same point again and again. Namely that I am not an apologist for anything Nazi.
You yourself admit that the Allies were hardly 'the good guys', yet you do not allow that I might be working with that very same fact. Instead you assume that I am part of the classic Hitler apologist framework. Far from it, I merely seek to point out those wrongs which the Allies committed because I am fairly certain that the vast majority of people are quite familiar with Nazi evils hence my rather simplistic treatment of Hitler and the Nazis; that they were evil. If you consider that the Allies were hardly 'the good guys' then we are essentially in agreement.
Time and again I find myself dealing with the fact that whenever I criticize the Allies, people assume that I am by definition praising the Nazis. Another reason why I bring God into the equation. Namely to show that BOTH the Allies and the Nazis can be criticized SIMULTANEOUSLY because God is greater than anyone/anything and is of a pure good that the Allies cannot dream of matching.
You seem quite fixated with the idea that I admire either the Third Reich, Hitler or the principles espoused by the former two. Yet I myself cannot count the number of times that I have repeated myself in stating time and again that Hitler, the Nazis and the Third Reich were EVIL. To their very core that is. It thus becomes very difficult for me to engage in discussion if you continue to assume that I 'admire' the aforementioned parties of evil. 'At the end of the day' I find myself repeating the same point again and again. Namely that I am not an apologist for anything Nazi.
You yourself admit that the Allies were hardly 'the good guys', yet you do not allow that I might be working with that very same fact. Instead you assume that I am part of the classic Hitler apologist framework. Far from it, I merely seek to point out those wrongs which the Allies committed because I am fairly certain that the vast majority of people are quite familiar with Nazi evils hence my rather simplistic treatment of Hitler and the Nazis; that they were evil. If you consider that the Allies were hardly 'the good guys' then we are essentially in agreement.
Time and again I find myself dealing with the fact that whenever I criticize the Allies, people assume that I am by definition praising the Nazis. Another reason why I bring God into the equation. Namely to show that BOTH the Allies and the Nazis can be criticized SIMULTANEOUSLY because God is greater than anyone/anything and is of a pure good that the Allies cannot dream of matching.
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern" General Heinz Guderian
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101st DOC
Here we go again. However, I suppose it only aids my cause to continue repeating the following. The Nazis were evil. The Third Reich was evil. Hitler was evil. Goebbels was a Nazi entirely aware of everything that the regime was responsible for. Given that he had no substantial disagreement with what was going on, one would conclude that he too was evil. Is my name still Goebbels? Or perhaps Goebbels was aware that he was a child of Satan and was quite happy with that identity, and merely aimed to convince the people of Germany that he was a 'good' person though he himself quite adored Satan .... None of which is substantiated by any evidence that might suggest that Goebbels was an open Satan worshipper.
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To Oberleutenant ....
France has not sent troops? As I recall there are French troops in Chad, so is there anything worth addressing left in your post? American troops off fighting terrorism, eh? Guess genocide is no longer an issue of any importance, correct? Or do I recall a time when genocide was an issue of far GREATER importance than something as SILLY as terrorism. In any case, terrorism is more important than the genocide of black people, or so America would have you believe. I am currently writing from the Middle East, I am vacationing here for the moment. But before you draw any hasty conclusions, I am in fact a citizen of the Republic of India/an East Indian as you Americans might call me, and I am a Christian by way of faith. To be precise my theology is Protestant, and if that isn't enough for you, very similar to conservative Lutheran Protestantism. Michael Moore? A bit of sensationalist I would say. Any other questions??
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern" General Heinz Guderian