Germany should ask Poland and Russia to return the land of East Prussia back under German control. Because East Prussia has been separated from the Fatherland for more than half a century long.
Germany should use all necessary ACTION to defend her Sovereignty.
Bring East Prussia Back To the Fatherland
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HunterSeeker
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Christoph Awender
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Re: Bring East Prussia Back To the Fatherland
This is a joke isn´t it?HunterSeeker wrote:Germany should ask Poland and Russia to return the land of East Prussia back under German control. Because East Prussia has been separated from the Fatherland for more than half a century long.
Germany should use all necessary ACTION to defend her Sovereignty.
Sadly, this will not happen. It would need to shuffle Poland eastward again...Poles are very touchy about this subject and Russia isn't known for giving up territory if it can help it in any way.
Considering that good relations to Poland or Russian are essential to Germany this demand would just mean to open a can of worms.
These areas are gone forever for Germany, that's just like it is.
Considering that good relations to Poland or Russian are essential to Germany this demand would just mean to open a can of worms.
These areas are gone forever for Germany, that's just like it is.
"Tell my mother I died for my country. I did what I thought was best."
John Wilkes Booth
April 12, 1865
John Wilkes Booth
April 12, 1865
Unemployment in Germany isn't increasing. Its just consistently high and has been so for quite a time. The German economy isn't decreaseing either, it is in fact growing, albeit somewhat sluggish during the last four years in a row. (And, to nitpick more, Germany payed more than 1250 € for the rennovation of the GDR. This is not the Eastern Germans fault however, you can thank Herrn Kohl for that, he started this).
Whatever.
Whatever.
"Tell my mother I died for my country. I did what I thought was best."
John Wilkes Booth
April 12, 1865
John Wilkes Booth
April 12, 1865
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HunterSeeker
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Well, According to the history, East Prussia was Germany Homeland. Russia and Poland divided up among themselves.
According to the Atlantic Charter >> All Allied Nation Agree that No Country's Boundary will be changed. But they disobey that and because of that East Prussia was separated from the Fatherland
According to the Atlantic Charter >> All Allied Nation Agree that No Country's Boundary will be changed. But they disobey that and because of that East Prussia was separated from the Fatherland
http://www.internet-esq.com/ussaugusta/atlantic1.htmHunterSeeker wrote:Well, According to the history, East Prussia was Germany Homeland. Russia and Poland divided up among themselves.
According to the Atlantic Charter >> All Allied Nation Agree that No Country's Boundary will be changed. But they disobey that and because of that East Prussia was separated from the Fatherland
First, the Atlantic Charter was sign by Franklin D. Roosevelt & Winston S. Churchill, which means that no other allies had to comply.
Second, taking the text from the charter: Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;, which implies that the Germans were willing to give up their land (I can picture it, an entire Soviet army pointing their guns and asking nicely "are you sure you want to give us your land")...
Last edited by Hawk on Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
What rubbish. The Germans were not willing to give anything up and anyone knew that. But in 1945 there was no Germany anymore, it was wiped of the map, and it was still debatable wether it would exist again. This was the whole point of the Allied war: Germanies unconditional surrender, with the included possibilty to eliminate it once and for all.
As far as Poland is concerned: to recreate Prussia with all its glory would have meant to go back to the borders of before 1918. Poland was a part of the Reich for hundreds of years (similiar to Scotland being a part of Great Britian) only with the treaty of Versailles it became a nation on its own (one with a significant German minority, that was in a similar situation in Poland like the Polish had been in the German Reich before). The whole point of the Polish campaign had been to bring back the old borders of the pre WWI era. Since the Russians had also lost territory they liked the idea very much.
After the war there was of course no question of going back to those borders. And even more: The Soviets wanted to keep the part of Poland they had "aquired" when...you know...Hitler had strated the second Worldwar (which is also rubbish, either Great Britain and France started the Worldwar, by escalating the war with Poland...or, if the attack on Poland qualifies as a Worldwar-starter, then Germany AND the Soviet Union, started it...nonetheless, myth has it to this very day that only the evil Germans started it alone. Undebatable fact).
But of course there was no big talk about the Soviet role in this in 1945. The solution of the problem was simple: The Soviet keep their part of the Poland heist (the Russians have it even today) and the Polish get parts of Germany as compensation, ethnic cleanse them (around 10 million Germans were expelled from Poland in 1946, around 1,5 million of them died) and everyone is happy (except for the Germans but they had it coming, anyway).
Could it have been prevented? Possibly. The Americans had the bomb from Summer 1945 on. With even more commitment, they could have even send the Soviets packing, back to the Soviet Union, incidently saving much of Eastern Europe from vanishing behind the Iron Curtain. But they rather chose not to do anything.
From 1949 on it was too late, since the Soviet Union became a nuclear power too.
Whatever, todays borders in Europe are now firmly established and will stay that way. And realising this, Germany will not even try to change them. And thats the best she can do. There are some things one simply has to accept.
As far as Poland is concerned: to recreate Prussia with all its glory would have meant to go back to the borders of before 1918. Poland was a part of the Reich for hundreds of years (similiar to Scotland being a part of Great Britian) only with the treaty of Versailles it became a nation on its own (one with a significant German minority, that was in a similar situation in Poland like the Polish had been in the German Reich before). The whole point of the Polish campaign had been to bring back the old borders of the pre WWI era. Since the Russians had also lost territory they liked the idea very much.
After the war there was of course no question of going back to those borders. And even more: The Soviets wanted to keep the part of Poland they had "aquired" when...you know...Hitler had strated the second Worldwar (which is also rubbish, either Great Britain and France started the Worldwar, by escalating the war with Poland...or, if the attack on Poland qualifies as a Worldwar-starter, then Germany AND the Soviet Union, started it...nonetheless, myth has it to this very day that only the evil Germans started it alone. Undebatable fact).
But of course there was no big talk about the Soviet role in this in 1945. The solution of the problem was simple: The Soviet keep their part of the Poland heist (the Russians have it even today) and the Polish get parts of Germany as compensation, ethnic cleanse them (around 10 million Germans were expelled from Poland in 1946, around 1,5 million of them died) and everyone is happy (except for the Germans but they had it coming, anyway).
Could it have been prevented? Possibly. The Americans had the bomb from Summer 1945 on. With even more commitment, they could have even send the Soviets packing, back to the Soviet Union, incidently saving much of Eastern Europe from vanishing behind the Iron Curtain. But they rather chose not to do anything.
From 1949 on it was too late, since the Soviet Union became a nuclear power too.
Whatever, todays borders in Europe are now firmly established and will stay that way. And realising this, Germany will not even try to change them. And thats the best she can do. There are some things one simply has to accept.
"Tell my mother I died for my country. I did what I thought was best."
John Wilkes Booth
April 12, 1865
John Wilkes Booth
April 12, 1865
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HunterSeeker
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OK
First I'm sure no country will let another country to just take its land. By mean of force.
Second Germany now is nothing like Nazi Germany back in the WWII.
I think East Prussia should be return to the Fatherland after its 59 years of separation.
Once again Germany have the right to claim and to defend it's land by all means necessary.
First I'm sure no country will let another country to just take its land. By mean of force.
Second Germany now is nothing like Nazi Germany back in the WWII.
I think East Prussia should be return to the Fatherland after its 59 years of separation.
Once again Germany have the right to claim and to defend it's land by all means necessary.
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Christoph Awender
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Ahem.. I guess you know why germany attacked Poland, russia etc?? To take their land by mean force.HunterSeeker wrote:OK
First I'm sure no country will let another country to just take its land. By mean of force.
Well, I am glad that your oppinion doesn´t count in Europe.I think East Prussia should be return to the Fatherland after its 59 years of separation.
You really think germany should claim this territory?? Now after we have the European union and decades of peace.Once again Germany have the right to claim and to defend it's land by all means necessary.
Where shall we continue?? Should Austria claim southern Tirol, Hungary...?
\Christoph
PS: I think that the Cherokee and all other native nations should claim back their territory from the US of A. QUOTE: "First I'm sure no country will let another country to just take its land. By mean of force"
HunterSeeker... it is history. It is like it is.
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Der Untermensch
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Feldgrau and the Fatherland
Feldgrau FAQ:HunterSeeker wrote:Germany should ask Poland and Russia to return the land of East Prussia back under German control. Because East Prussia has been separated from the Fatherland for more than half a century long. Germany should use all necessary ACTION to defend her Sovereignty.
Feldgrau Registration Agreement Terms:Anyone who posts intolerant or reactionary messages on this forum will have their messages promptly removed and their accounts permanently suspended
Few weeks ago I have posted a message which contained mostly links to various web-based photographs of German soldiers. This post has been removed by the administrator few hours after it had been posted. I have never received any information which of the Feldgrau rules I have violated. The above quoted post is in place for half a day already. Just in case Mr Admin missed it (there are so many posts here!) I have notified him by e-mail. Let's see what happens.You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, or sexually-orientated material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned. [...] You agree that the webmaster/admin and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit
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sid guttridge
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Hi H-S,
Actually, according to history, East Prussia was not "Germany homeland". It was colonised by the Teutonic Knights in the Middle Ages.
However, as the previous inhabitants were a Baltic people, related to the Lithuanians and Latvians, neither Poles nor the Russians have a sound historic claim to East Prussia either.
Perhaps East Prussia should go to the Lithuanians, as the nearest known relatives of the original inhabitants? Lithuanian nationalists made just such a claim between the wars.
Cheers,
Sid.
Actually, according to history, East Prussia was not "Germany homeland". It was colonised by the Teutonic Knights in the Middle Ages.
However, as the previous inhabitants were a Baltic people, related to the Lithuanians and Latvians, neither Poles nor the Russians have a sound historic claim to East Prussia either.
Perhaps East Prussia should go to the Lithuanians, as the nearest known relatives of the original inhabitants? Lithuanian nationalists made just such a claim between the wars.
Cheers,
Sid.
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OberleutenantAG
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Prussian homeland?
Guys,
I believe this is a moot argument. With how concentrated the European community is becoming, i.e. the EU and the Euro, how can anyone say that any territory is anyone elses. That is like saying Texas was a part of Mexico, so we should give it back. It just is not going to happen. Poland is a soverign nation and should not be "forced" to give back land that now belongs to it. That is like England screaming that they want their colonies back. Here ya go...here's Virginia and Georgia back.
^
I believe this is a moot argument. With how concentrated the European community is becoming, i.e. the EU and the Euro, how can anyone say that any territory is anyone elses. That is like saying Texas was a part of Mexico, so we should give it back. It just is not going to happen. Poland is a soverign nation and should not be "forced" to give back land that now belongs to it. That is like England screaming that they want their colonies back. Here ya go...here's Virginia and Georgia back.
^
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HunterSeeker
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