Beamte
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Rodger Herbst
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Beamte
I run across this term,it seemed to me to be specialized people,but they had army rank.Can anyone tell me about these people and other civilians who seemed the German Army had so many of?
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DeBaer
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Im not really sure for WW2 era, but today Beamte are people who are employed by the government, due to this it contains many different jobs. Policemen and teachers for example are Beamte, they all have special obligations and rights, so its nothing which only affects the army. but probably other people can tell you more.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Sven
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terras licet et undas obstruat at caelum certe patet
Sven
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terras licet et undas obstruat at caelum certe patet
Re: Beamte
Rodger, the Beamte were government civil servants employed by the military. Usually the performed specialty clerical functions and other similar jobs. In the US Army most of their functions would have been carried out by warrant officers I believe.Rodger Herbst wrote:I run across this term,it seemed to me to be specialized people,but they had army rank.Can anyone tell me about these people and other civilians who seemed the German Army had so many of?
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Rodger Herbst
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Leo Niehorster
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I found this on the web some time ago, and forgot to note the URL. Howver, it offers a clear explaination. I also have a list of almost 200 titles and ranks used by Beamten, which I will not post. Enjoy.
/Leo
Source:
LTC Louis H. Brown
“Officials”
Article in Kettenhunde: The Newsletter of Feldgendarmerie-Trupp (Mot.) 200, Volume IV, Number 1 (Jan/Feb 1994).
The concept of uniformed civilian personnel in the military is somewhat difficult to understand. A particularly European idea, the German Army probably took the idea to its limits in institutionalization.
German Beamten (as these officials were called) ranked equivalent to officers; there were some with equivalent Unteroffiziere mit Portepee (Senior NCO) ranks. They were members of the Armed Forces according to the Law of Land Warfare, but were not “soldiers” by the German definition. As officials, their authority extended only to their specialty field — unlike soldiers, whose authority extends to anyone whom the individual outranks. Beamten could not hold command. They were entitled to all the customs and courtesies associated with their rank/status, however. In the social order of the day, being an officer was the peak of the pyramid, if you couldn’t be a regular officer, being a reserve officer was next best, and a very close approximation of that would have been appointment as an official. In addition to those performing personnel, supply, and logistics functions, army chaplains, doctors, bandmasters and veterinarians were also officials, although their uniforms differed significantly from those of the other officials in being basically those of active officers with distinguishing insignia. The main difference between officer and official status depended much on education. Officials were by no means lesser-educated officers — many had university degrees (which few officers did) — but they did not meet the professional education/training requirements for appointment as officers or soldiers. Most officials tended to remain such although if the military education qualifications were met, appointment as an officer or soldier could be made. In 1944 the Germans began to laterally appoint all officials to regular officer ranks; how far this program went is conjectural since it was begun so late. Those taken over wore regular officer uniforms. Several new “branches”, with corresponding branch colours and insignia, were created to accommodate these individuals. Many officials, by the way, were Zwoelfender (“Twelvers” — from the 12-year service requirement), retirees out of the Reichsheer (1919-1935). One of the Reichsheer’s member benefits had been retraining during the 12th year of service in a civilian career — one of the more attractive options was appointment to the Beamtenschule, a training school for government officials which allowed many to come back into the army as civilian administrators. It is important to point out that not all German Army civilians were Beamten; many (including women) were hired on the Civil Service scale and served in administrative and clerical positions; basically, they were civilian employees. (Women could not serve as officials.)
Beamten were not addressed by the same titles as regular officers. A paymaster Hauptmann-equivalent, for instance, was a Stabzahlmeister; a Major assigned to the Supreme Court Martial was an Amtsrat beim Reichskriegsgericht. Whether the average landser walking down the street would have known the titles is doubtful, but those who worked with these individuals certainly did. Most any soldier would have recognized a paymaster - - he was an important man in the battalion since he doled out food and money. The titles among officials of equal rank also varied by specialty, so knowing the specific title for one Beamter did not necessarily give any indication at all of another’s title.
Each branch had its own secondary colour, and some branches such as Field Post Office had their own insignia in place of the HV symbol. Reich Courts Martial officials wore no devices at all, and army clergy wore no shoulder straps at all.
Another category of offical was introduced after the outbreak of war; those who lacked the qualifications to be full-fledged officials but who possessed critically-needed skills were appointed as "Beamter auf Kriegsdauer" (Officials for the Duration of the War).
/Leo
Source:
LTC Louis H. Brown
“Officials”
Article in Kettenhunde: The Newsletter of Feldgendarmerie-Trupp (Mot.) 200, Volume IV, Number 1 (Jan/Feb 1994).
The concept of uniformed civilian personnel in the military is somewhat difficult to understand. A particularly European idea, the German Army probably took the idea to its limits in institutionalization.
German Beamten (as these officials were called) ranked equivalent to officers; there were some with equivalent Unteroffiziere mit Portepee (Senior NCO) ranks. They were members of the Armed Forces according to the Law of Land Warfare, but were not “soldiers” by the German definition. As officials, their authority extended only to their specialty field — unlike soldiers, whose authority extends to anyone whom the individual outranks. Beamten could not hold command. They were entitled to all the customs and courtesies associated with their rank/status, however. In the social order of the day, being an officer was the peak of the pyramid, if you couldn’t be a regular officer, being a reserve officer was next best, and a very close approximation of that would have been appointment as an official. In addition to those performing personnel, supply, and logistics functions, army chaplains, doctors, bandmasters and veterinarians were also officials, although their uniforms differed significantly from those of the other officials in being basically those of active officers with distinguishing insignia. The main difference between officer and official status depended much on education. Officials were by no means lesser-educated officers — many had university degrees (which few officers did) — but they did not meet the professional education/training requirements for appointment as officers or soldiers. Most officials tended to remain such although if the military education qualifications were met, appointment as an officer or soldier could be made. In 1944 the Germans began to laterally appoint all officials to regular officer ranks; how far this program went is conjectural since it was begun so late. Those taken over wore regular officer uniforms. Several new “branches”, with corresponding branch colours and insignia, were created to accommodate these individuals. Many officials, by the way, were Zwoelfender (“Twelvers” — from the 12-year service requirement), retirees out of the Reichsheer (1919-1935). One of the Reichsheer’s member benefits had been retraining during the 12th year of service in a civilian career — one of the more attractive options was appointment to the Beamtenschule, a training school for government officials which allowed many to come back into the army as civilian administrators. It is important to point out that not all German Army civilians were Beamten; many (including women) were hired on the Civil Service scale and served in administrative and clerical positions; basically, they were civilian employees. (Women could not serve as officials.)
Beamten were not addressed by the same titles as regular officers. A paymaster Hauptmann-equivalent, for instance, was a Stabzahlmeister; a Major assigned to the Supreme Court Martial was an Amtsrat beim Reichskriegsgericht. Whether the average landser walking down the street would have known the titles is doubtful, but those who worked with these individuals certainly did. Most any soldier would have recognized a paymaster - - he was an important man in the battalion since he doled out food and money. The titles among officials of equal rank also varied by specialty, so knowing the specific title for one Beamter did not necessarily give any indication at all of another’s title.
Each branch had its own secondary colour, and some branches such as Field Post Office had their own insignia in place of the HV symbol. Reich Courts Martial officials wore no devices at all, and army clergy wore no shoulder straps at all.
Another category of offical was introduced after the outbreak of war; those who lacked the qualifications to be full-fledged officials but who possessed critically-needed skills were appointed as "Beamter auf Kriegsdauer" (Officials for the Duration of the War).
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Piet Duits
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As a follow up on what Leo already wrote: especially Kriegspfarrer (IVd) were Beamte auf Kriegsdauer (a.K.).
A nice site with more information on Wehrmachtsbeamte can be found here: http://members.shaw.ca/deutschesoldaten/
@ Leo: which I will not post
A nice site with more information on Wehrmachtsbeamte can be found here: http://members.shaw.ca/deutschesoldaten/
@ Leo: which I will not post
Nur für den Dienstgebrauch
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Leo Niehorster
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Leo Niehorster
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