New requirement going forward re: user names on Feldgrau

Updates, changes and plans for Feldgrau.net and Feldgrau.com.
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AAA
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Post by AAA » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:22 am

Hmm

1. The axis of WWII, let alone anything to do with the SS, is not neccessarily a neutral topic. Hence a forum devoted to the topic is not inherantly harmless like one devoted to rose gardening or whatever. The whole Smelser & Davies book business should illustrate this adequately.

2. Information posted on the internet is liable to last longer than chiselling it into granite, and can be accessed globally. However, unless your ISP sucks, accessing (and untangling) ISP logs to identify user activity is beyond all but the biggest governments with a serious interest, and is even be beyond those if your ISP is discreet and/or foreign. But every damn fool has access to google.

3. Future employers are almost certain to vet one's e-trail, what is cool to post at age 19 can be real embarrassing when trying to find employment at age 29, or election at 39. If you think that management doesn't google you're wrong.

4. As for Orwell : While some members have touching confidence in the stability and democratic decency of their own countries, so did the population of Budapest or Berlin in 1907. In eastern Europe Some formerly complacent middle class folks suffered three completely different totalitarian ideologies complete with secret police in less than 35 years. Paranoia is not entirely irrational.

5. In any case, excepting known (publishing) authors and short of presenting passports, I do not see that "John Doe" will be any more "real" a name than "Panzerdude438" or whatever.

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:58 am

AAA wrote:5. In any case, excepting known (publishing) authors and short of presenting passports, I do not see that "John Doe" will be any more "real" a name than "Panzerdude438" or whatever.
Well, I did go to high school with a kid named John Doe! Honest! As he was wont to run afoul of the law now and again, it did cause certain difficulties! :D
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phylo_roadking
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Post by phylo_roadking » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:00 am

We had a Richard Ende at school and boy did he suffer!!! Especially in 6th Form when we could get our hands on the loudspeaker system...
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

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Post by phylo_roadking » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:13 am

One aspect of this that only just came to me, that doesn't matter to me or any European poster...or in fact ANY post not from the US...is the question of your Fifth Amendment Rights, to not incriminate yourself i.e. the right to say/do/write/something, and for your connection to it to be proved by any person or party taking personal or legal exception to it.

I applaud those US members here who have waived that right and use their names openly, but I can anticipate that others would not wish to as a matter of principle.
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

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sniper1shot
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Post by sniper1shot » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:23 am

Here in Canada we don't have a 5th amendment
"I refuse to answer on the grounds it might incriminate me".

I have read this whole post......all 6 pages of it. Some very valid points.
Regardless of what people think, there are still others out there that hold a very limited view of Germany in WWII. It is mostly from being ill informed. Call it political correctness, call it paranoid, call it what you want. Some businesses would not hire a person or would call an employee "on the mat" to explain.

Member AAA who posted up above....brings some very valid points.

Though I do not "HIDE" behind my nickname, I also DO NOT post my full name....first & last, anywhere, unless needed ie: giving a credit card online. That being said, I was paranoid (still am) about someone with better computer skills than I getting access to it.

With the job I do, I am happy just to give my first name. That is all someone on the street, who I just meet, gets.....and a handshake.
Only he is lost who gives himself up as lost.

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Doktor Krollspell
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Post by Doktor Krollspell » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:36 am

Hello Sniper, Jason et al!

I very much agree with the points made by both AAA and Sniper1Shot. My personal position in this matter is that I do not wish to show or flaunt my name on the Internet more that I have, or is forced to (when using credit cards).

Even if I know why I'm so deep into military history in general and from the german point of viev in particular doesn't mean that my surroundings will understand or accept this. I work as a history teacher in a high profile school (grades 7-9) in the Stockholm area and all of our 500+ pupils have their own computers at home and in our school we have about 100 computers. These young generation spends a LOT of time on the Internet searching and spreading information, rumours and gossip and I would not like it to be widely known what I do and what I don't do on the Internet. It's nobody else's god damn business...

I would have no problems whatsoever explaining/defending my interests but why should I have to in the first place? The Kids are not the main problem, rather my boss, my collegues and of course about 1000 parents to our pupils...


So, if I have understood the past events correctly... Some provocative posts and posters, quarrels and sheer idiotic behaviour and views from a very small minority of Feldgrau's members could result in... everyone having to identify him or her self in the future? :?

I can just hope that the Feldgrau Forum doesn't go down that particular alley... Surely, there must be other ways, both for Jason and the Moderators and more importently for us Forum members to avoid matters that are not relevant within the Forum guidelines and more important, the Forum's purpose, that of discussing and studying the German armed forces and there activities in connection to World War 2...


This is more like my two dollars than it is my two cents...

Doktor Krollspell (And yes, I do have a christian name... :wink: )
"Wie es eigentlich gewesen ist"
Leopold von Ranke (1795-1886)

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Post by phylo_roadking » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:47 am

Doktor Krollspell (And yes, I do have a christian name...
Yes, it's Herr....
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

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Doktor Krollspell
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Post by Doktor Krollspell » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:50 am

:D :D :D


Comradely regards,

Herr Doktor Krollspell
"Wie es eigentlich gewesen ist"
Leopold von Ranke (1795-1886)

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Jason Pipes
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Post by Jason Pipes » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:54 pm

Lively debate so far, I appreciate the many responses and think the conversation is great for the future of the site. Keep it up!

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Einsamer_Wolf
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Post by Einsamer_Wolf » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:48 pm

Jason Pipes wrote:Lively debate so far, I appreciate the many responses and think the conversation is great for the future of the site. Keep it up!
A number of people have expressed grave reservations about disclosing one's real name. I hope the reservation that I and others have expressed have dissuaded you from implementing this policy. Already, we have anecdotes about real estate deals not closing, losing important business contacts based on one's interest in this area of history.

I think people know that my interest in this area of history emanates, at least in part, from political considerations. But even if I omit those when forced to explain my interest, even an indirect allusion to an interest in this area of history causes problems.

One time, during my temp days, I mentioned to my colleagues that I am expecting a shipment from an internet order I placed for music and books. Sure enough, someone asked what books I ordered. I was very tempted to say none of your business, but felt that would only create more tension. So I disclosed some of the titles, including Pat Buchanan's Death of the West, as well as a book on the French Campaign, as wel other, less controversial titles . When I confided the latter title, eyes widened. Merely explaining an interest in military history in so-called apolitical terms did not quell apprehensions

It did not take long for me to have a reputation on that floor as the resident neo-Nazi. People knew I spoken German. People knew I read books on German military history. People overheard me discussing den Untergang with ol' Gay Ed (the resident older gay guy on the floor, who notwithstanding his lifestyle, i genuinedly appreciated for his education and level of refinement)--nevermind that any of my comments regarding the film that may have been overheard were generally quite adverse to Hitler. My hairstyle (long on top and front, shaved close sides and back with a one, although back then a zero) coupled with predominantly black clothing, and what one colleague describned as my "hulking physique" also contributed to my infamy. Indeed, he indicated that a number of people "considered me [a] scary reincarnation of one of those soldiers of darkness." There was also much speculation about my tattoo, which I had hoped was obscure enough, although stylistically perhaps it does suggest that good old time.
I hope this anecdote impresses upon you the need for privacy. I have certainly learned my lesson. I do not let anyone see my tattoo, I do not discuss books I read, or my modelling hobby.
There are of course other anecdotes. I made the mistake of confiding my hobby to a blonde hottie (incidentally she discussed going to and perfomring at an amateur night at a strip club, with me in attendance). She wanted to know what I liked to do in my freetime. I told her I lift weights, going to the gym, packers. Then it came around to modelling. I mentioned my hesitance to confide that because of the high geek factor--it was one of the 40 year-old virgin's hobbies. She asked me what I modelled. I reluctantly confided almost exclusively Third Reich stuff. She asked why. I told her the equipment appealed to me at an aesthetic and historical level, that I admired what the Germans achieved in the face of overwhelming odds, and was interested historically because it is a side not readily told by historians. I tried to downplay any notion t hat it is a political statemet, making the distinction between German rank and file and the Nazi leadership. Well, it has been two weeks, have not heard from her. Lesson leared: do not confide my hobby to sexually preocious women, and in particular never confie the subject matter I favor!
So again, the need for privacy is tantamount. Oh, and in addition to employers, dates are known to google each other as well. That is how I found out one woman i had been dating was an FHM model.

EW
Mögen die Flammen unserer Begeisterung niemals zum Erlöschen kommen.

statemachine
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Post by statemachine » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:52 pm

We understand Einsamer_Wolf.A little racy for most of us. :wink:
An unbreakable man

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Einsamer_Wolf
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Post by Einsamer_Wolf » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:39 pm

statemachine wrote:We understand Einsamer_Wolf.A little racy for most of us. :wink:
Actually, my post was not racy at all. And that is exactly the point. Nothing has happened, perhaps because of the stigma of some of my more taboo interests. She is busy, and it is the holidays, so perhaps not all is lost. But even so--it is simply not a good idea to let just anyone know aboout one's interest in this area of history. And when that person holds your needs hostage, whether they are economic (employer) or sexual (potential lover of f*ck-buddy), such precautions are even more tantamount. Of course I yield to such temptations only because the good guys lost--because we live in a modern day Weimar Berlin--a Sodom and Gomorhha--in which all romanticism is utterly forlorn, in which my own Lilli Marleen is not to be found to whom I could devote myself utterly and completey, but I digress! The point is a very promising prospect, who wanted me to attend her audition at amateur night at some strip club is in peril, is very likely in jeopardy, perhaps because I told her I have an interest not only in a hobby shared by a forty year old vigin, but because of my strong interest in German military history. So no, Jason, I do not want information about my interests readily available on the world wide web. Off to go drink!

EW
Mögen die Flammen unserer Begeisterung niemals zum Erlöschen kommen.

Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:47 am

I think we're all ignoring "the elephant in the room" here. Because of the serial antics of perhaps half a dozen key trolls and a few younger or less intelligent individuals who ape them, we are looking at forcing all sorts of perfectly innocent people into the open where people who share the mindsets that meet with said trolls' approval can victimise or penalise them for having interests outside what passes for the norm. Either you have the real name system, which requires some sort of verification, or you accept that the majority of serious-minded people who use a website like this one are not here to derail discussions and hound veterans for political reasons, you identify the hard-leftist trolls and their acolytes, and you exclude them, banning them when they pop back up under new false names. But you have to have the will to do this. I did it on MCF when we created a forum for veterans to interact with members. I banned anyone who even seemed as if they might be hostile to elder members who served with the Waffen-SS. It worked, as the discussions that developed showed. When I started implementing a similar policy but broader-based on Feldpost, membership began rising, as did quality participation. Unfortunately, I was overruled and the rest is history, as they say. And now. it seems, encouraged by their small victory there, they have been attacking Feldgrau, as the "review" of the Smelser/Davies book and some of the other remarks and diatribes levelled at Jason Pipes show. The amusing aspect of this is the spectacle of people who privately have quite rightwing views aligning themselves, for camouflage purposes, with a group of people who behave as if they are on retainers from certain lobby groups who have vested interests in sabotaging websites where the realities of the Third Reich era are discussed. At least Jason Pipes now understands what being on the receiving end of abuse from these latterday witchhunters can be like. Throw half a dozen individuals off this website and the 90% of the trouble will disappear with them. I could name them and so could a lot of other members.

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Doktor Krollspell
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Post by Doktor Krollspell » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:05 am

Hello Paddy!

I basically agree with your post but I personally think that ALL trollish personal political agendas has to go or be largely tuned down, not only that...
you identify the hard-leftist trolls and their acolytes, and you exclude them, banning them when they pop back up under new false names.
Then you have the hard-rightist agenda-ridden trolls, don't you agree..? Or are some agendas more "right" than others? I could also name them and so could a lot of other members.

I think Feldgrau should be a Forum for serious discussion on german-related matters of WWII... Again, that's just my two cents...


Btw Paddy, I really appreciate your posts on the matters of the Fallschirmjäger of the Waffen-SS and similar special/obscure units. Very interesting facts and details (and photographs) that you willingly share with the rest of us Feldgrauians! Thanks and keep the good posts coming!:D


With best regards,

Krollspell
"Wie es eigentlich gewesen ist"
Leopold von Ranke (1795-1886)

Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:46 am

Thank you! I agree that all political agendas, grudges, feuds and other negative stuff should be left outside. That said, "leftists" - for want of a better word because fascists and national socialists were initially left-leaning - are out of place on a forum focusing on German military and paramilitary history of the 20th century. It is fair to say that most of them come here to 'fight' with people they perceive as 'hard right' or worse. Do you see what I mean? So if anything like this is discouraged, while the use of real names is encouraged - with exceptions for guys like you whose careers might be jeopardised by "leftists" just as they have tried to damage my business - then this can only be a good thing.

PK

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