What was the status of a negro in the US Army?

[canon]

Just saw a film about Martin Luther King. It was said that before 1950 the coloured citizens of the USA were some kind of third class people and had in some states of the USA the same status as for example the jews in germany. If that is true why could negroes serve in the US Army in WWII? Was it extra duty with a white armed guard behind their neck? Is it also true that a negroid officer was not allowed to command a fighting unit like a tank unit or to fly a fighter?

canon

[vonsalza]

Hi, Canon.

You need a U.S. citizen to talk about this, but meanwhile none appear i will try to say something.

First, it's true that until the end of the Sixties, the blacks (the Americans today says "Afro-americans", but i'm not a Yankee, thus i don't need to obey your "political correctness") had a low status. But, i believe that only in the Southern states.

But even with persecutions, lynchings by the Ku-Klux-Klan and humiliations, it's never could to be compared with the Jews under the Nazi terror. Even the KKK never want to exterminate the blacks. Only to make them to conform to your inferior social status.

About the blacks in U.S. Armed Forces, they fight in all decisive wars of the United States: from the Revolutionary War with Washington to the new Iraquian War with Bush Jr. You must to see the movie "Glory" with Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman and Matthew Broderick about the fight of the 54th Massachussets Volunteer Infantry, the most famous black infantry regiment of the Yankee Army. More than one hundred thousand blackmen fight against the Confederates in the American Civil War.

In the fights against the Indians (Native-americans) the U.S. Army must to rely in some very tough black regiments, like the U.S. 10th Cavalry Regiment, nicknamed the "Buffalo Soldiers" by the Apaches.

In the years 1870, one black was commissioned as a regular officer in West Point Academy and served against the Indians.

In the Great War, the Americans formed some independent black infantry regiments that were put under French command. They fought valiantly.

In the Second World War, black divisions were formed: some them don’t see any combat, but one in Mediterranean (the 92nd Infantry Division, “The Buffalo Soldiers”) fought the Germans in the Northern Italy. They fought side by side with the 1st Brazilian Expeditionary Infantry Division. Sometimes, black regiments of the 92nd were put under Brazilian command, and vice-versa.

Too, were formed independent black tank battalions, tank-destroyers battalions in the Northwest Europe front.

The blacks don’t need one “white armed guard behind their neck” to fight against the Germans. Some black soldiers and officers were well decorated by heroism in combat.

In the Italian Front, one black fighter squadron fought very well: was the 99th Fighter Squadron, “The Tuskegee Airmen”.

How you can see, blacks were put in command of tanks and fighters in combat.

[Oracle]

1. The film actor Burgess Meredith did a wartime movie for African-Americans and one aspect that comes to mind is when he mentions that they might come into contact with West Indian [or perhaps African] what we now call Afro-Caribbeans, who were of course British. As an aside, Colin [his parents pronounced his name Coll-in not Cole-in, the former the British pronounciation] Powell's parents emigrated from the West Indies to NYC. They always thought of themselves as "British".

2. I seem to remember that Truman stated that African-Americans had fought with such distinction that he would abolish post-war the segregation in the Armed Forces. Am I right when I suggest it was 1947 when this was achieved?

[Dackel Staffel]

Hi,

Just for info, I guess it was in 1948.

July 26, 1948: President Truman signs Executive Order 9981, which states, "It is hereby declared to be the policy of the President that there shall be equality of treatment and opportunity for all persons in the armed services without regard to race, color, religion, or national origin." The order also establishes the President's Committee on Equality of Treatment and Opportunity in the Armed Services

Info from :
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/deseg1.htm

[101stDoc]

There are a number of black MoH winners (among other medals).

There were several black officers in WW2.

The Korean War was fought reasonably desegregated in places...it was not COMMON, but not unheard of, for a black officer to lead white enlisted men.

As bad as racial tensions were at times in those days, it doesn't hold a candle to how the Jews were treated. Apples and oranges.

Doc

[Patrick]

I've read only three books that dealt at length with race in the US military - "The Good War" by Studs Turkel, "The Port Chicago Mutiny" by Robert Allen and "Liberators: Fighting on Two Fronts" by Lou Potter. (I've heard that the "Liberators" book has fabricated or falsified the battle record of the 761st Tank BN, so I'll stay away from that particular topic.)

My impression is that blacks did indeed have second-class status throughout the US but that it was particularly bad in the South, where most US camps were located. Typical anecdotes include German/Italian POWs receiving better treatment than black US soldiers or the difficulties of northern blacks living in camps in the segregated south.

Blacks were in non-combat roles at first (truck drivers, mess, quartermaster, graves registration, stevedores) but later due to manpower shortages were organized into segregated combat units led by white officers. I've heard that by 1945 the replacement situation was so desperate, that blacks were unofficially integrated into front-line units alongside white soldiers.

I'm sure most everyone by now is familiar with the Tuskegee Airmen. I recall one interview with a former Airman from Studs Turkel's book. He claimed that creation of the squadron was a social experiment that the Army didn't want any part of, and the Army tried hard to discourage the unit by enacting very tough standards for its pilot recruits. These tough standards inadvertently created an elite unit by accepting only those blacks with the very best pilot skills.

In the Navy, blacks/Filipinos were used as mess cook attendants/stewards but I have no idea of what their roles were during general quarters. A famous story is about a black steward (Dorrie Miller?) who manned a 50-cal MG and shot down a Japanese plane during Pearl Harbor, so they must have had some combat training.

I've read a little on the US civil rights movement in the 1950s/1960s and more than once read about the sentiment used to motivate US soldiers to fight for freedom and liberty and black soldiers fighting questioning this by saying "Why are we fighting and dying for freedom for people in Europe when we don't have it at home?"

I agree with previous posters that while the situation for blacks was bad, it doesn't really equate to the extermination policy towards Jews in Germany.

[101stDoc]

A famous story is about a black steward (Dorrie Miller?) who manned a 50-cal MG and shot down a Japanese plane during Pearl Harbor, so they must have had some combat training.

Doris "Dorrie" Miller was a Ship's Cook 3rd Class. He was formerly a farmer from Texas. He joined the USN to see the world and support his family back home (a common reason for enlisting for both black and white sailors). He had served on the USS West Virginia for nearly a year prior to PH (minus some time on USS Nevada at 2nd Btty Gunnery School), and was the ship's heavyweight boxing champ.

On 12/7/41, he was in the process of collecting laundry when GQ was sounded. He went to his battlestation (the Amidships AA Btty mag) but found it heavily damaged by torp damage, so he went up on deck. He was made part of a stretcher party, and was eventually ordered to the bridge to help the captain, who'd been mortally wounded. He then manned the .50 cal til he ran out of ammo, and was ordered to abandon ship.

Miller was awarded the Navy Cross, which is the highest ranking medal a Marine or Sailor can recieve aside from the MoH. It was presented to him in May of 1942 by none other than Nimitz.

Miller was later MIA/KIA/BNR in the sinking of the carrier USS Liscome Bay.

A Knox class frigate was named after him in 1973.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq57-4.htm

Doc

[stab131]

I am glad you asked your question, it shows you do not believe everything you see on TV.

Blacks were mostly kept in all black units in WWII. Mostly in the support arms; HOWEVER, there were many black officers, a black infantry divison, an black cavalry division, and even black fighter pilots (The " Tuskegee Airman," who never lost an escorted bomber to enemy fighter action."

In the ETO in late 1944 and into 1945, in several divisions, rifle companies received a platoon of black soldiers that served side by side with white soldiers, in what had been white units up to that point. (See Ambrose’s Citizen Soldiers.)

There were several black tank units, engineer units and infantry units and a black airborne regiment (555 PIR). They fought generally well, though some units did have dismal combat records as did white units, and some NEVER left the states (the 555 PIR for example, they served as smoke jumpers, fighting forest fires, and many of the techniques they pioneered are still in use today. – As an aside, in 92 or 93 I escorted a reunion of the 555 PIR at Fort Campbell, KY. Had a great time with them, they even experimented with jumping out of a WACO glider while it was being towed.)

As for blacks being 3d class people that is not true. In the 1940s the US south was a segregated environment. Blacks were never treated as badly as the Jews were; there were no concentration camps, no mass deportations, and no forced labor. Our blacks could vote, freely associate, freely travel, freely practive their religion, practive free speech, all the rights that whites had.

Yes they had to ride in the back of the bus and drink from black's only drinking fountains, and use black waiting rooms. I am not saying is was easy, but that comparable to Germany our black citizens were treated much better than the Jews in Germany.

As to why they fought. They are Americans and wanted to serve their country. Every black WWII vet I have talked to admits to hard times in the civilian world, but they all said they were treated VERY fairly in the military. They believed that by serving and showing how well they served, that their service would improve the lot of all blacks and their service did.

As a result of black's service in WWII, President Truman ordered the US military desegregated in 1947. Today, we have had black 4 star generals, and a black Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I have served under black officers and had black officers and men serve under me.

What they are judged upon is how good a soldier they are, not the color of their skin.

Is racism still alive in the US, yes, but it is nowhere as bad as it was in 1940 or 1960. And we have the WWII black soldier to thank for that.



Jeff

[B Hellqvist]

I remember one of the interviews in Studs Terkel's "The Good War", where an Afro-American man told about his experiences in a tank battallion which was in the thick of battle during most of Patton's campaign through Europe. IIRC, he said that Patton at first didn't believe that "Negroes" were able to handle complicated equipment like tanks, but that they proved him wrong. Another observation was that some of them were quite happy to fight Germans - not necessarily because they were the nominal enemy, but because they were white...

Another branch of service was the transport troops; the "Red Ball Express" relied heavily on black drivers for transport of supplies in the ETO.

[Freiritter]

I'd have to say that African-Americans were treated as second class citizens, unfortunately, though not to the extent of European Jews. Initially, the Regular Army, Navy and Marine Corps were reluctant to use black troops, especially in regard to Southern sensibilities. Though as the war went on, enough political and manpower pressure ensured the formation of black units, though, these troops were to serve in all black units, to prevent morale problems as perceived by the Pentagon at the time. Though according to Ambrose's book, Citizen Soldiers ( A fascinating read, IMHO ) many returning white veterans of WWII had gained a respect for the black troops as a result of the actions of the Tuskegee Airmen and the Red Ball Express. Truman's executive order of military desegregation after WWII ( One of many reasons why I'm thankful that Truman was Vice President in 1945. ) was due to the plight of black veterans in the post war years, citing descrimination despite wartime service. In the face of powerful Southern political figures and the crucial Southern voting bloc for the Democrats, that was a great act of courage and justice, long overdue from the Civil War era. Sorry, if I'm too wordy and long-winded.

[Christian]

I have not researched this particular topic; however I thouth that some of you might be interested in the following CMH publications (Center of Military History):

The Employment of Negro Troops in WWII
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/11-4/index.htm

African American Volunteers as Infantry Replacements
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/topics/afam/VolInfRpl.htm

Cheers,

Christian

[Andy H]

Though relating to the USN in WW2 I thought this would be of interest

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/Adm ... index.html

Regards

[lwd]

Segregation in the South was more overt than in the North but not necessarily less prevalant. This was pretty much the case up until the 70's although there was a general improvement post WWII. The miliary was probably the first major sector of the US to become fully integrated which probably is one reason there are porportionally more Americans of partial Afreican descent in the military currently.

I do remeber reading or hereing somewhere that Patton was not happy when an all black tank or at battalion was initially assigned to him. However once he saw how well they performed he actually requested more such units. This may be appocraphal.

As compaired to Jews in Germany under the Nazis it's a totally different situation. In the former case the government at all levels but especially at the national level was descriminating against them. In the latter case it was mostly individual descrimination although there was some organizational and governmental at lower levels but much of this was due to individuals misusing their power.

[Andy H]

The Army Nurse Corps accepted only a small number of black nurses during World War II. When the war ended in September 1945 just 479 black nurses were serving in a corps of 50,000 because a quota system imposed by the segregated Army during the fast two years of the war held down the number of black enrollments. In 1943, for example, the Army limited the number of black nurses in the Nurse Corps to 160. Army authorities argued that assignments available to black nurses were limited because they were only allowed to care for black troops in black wards or hospitals. But unfavorable public reaction and political pressure forced the Army to drop its quota system in 1944. Subsequently, about 2,000 black students enrolled in the Cadet Nurse Corps program, and nursing schools for blacks benefited from increased federal funding.

The first black medical unit to deploy overseas was the 25th Station Hospital Unit, which contained thirty nurses. The unit went to Liberia in 1943 to care for U.S. troops protecting strategic airfields and rubber plantations. Malaria was the most serious health problem the troops encountered. Although malarial patients required an intensive amount of care, much of this work was routine and could be rendered by trained corpsmen. The nurses felt superfluous, and unit morale declined. The nurses were recalled late in 1943 because of poor health and low morale. Some were sent to general and station hospitals in the United States; others went to the 383d and 335th Station Hospitals near Tagap, Burma, where they treated black troops working on the Ledo Road. Another group of fifteen nurses deployed to the Southwest Pacific Area in the summer of 1943 with the all-black 268th Station Hospital. In June 1944 a unit of sixty-three nurses went to the 168th Station Hospital in England to care for German prisoners of war. By the end of the war, black nurses had served in Africa, England' Burma, and the Southwest Pacific.

http://history.amedd.army.mil/ANCWebsit ... uction.htm

[Reb]

lwd

Patton was indeed sceptical about his Negro tankers yet the pep talk he gave them is justly famous. "don't let your people down, don't let me down." They didn't.

there is a good short history of this unit (761 if I recall correctly) with good photos called "Brothers in Arms."

cheers
Reb