Czechoslovakia 1938

[Patrick]

Hi all

I caught the tail end of a special on Heydrich yesterday and got to thinking...

Why didn't the Czech army put up resistance against the Germans in 1938 (either when the Sudetenland was taken or when the rest was grabbed)? What was the relative strength of Czech forces compared to the Germans? Could the Czechs by themselves have inflicted damage akin to what the Finns did to the Russians or were they counting too heavily on French and British support that never came?

I'd appreciate any book recommendations on the subject, thanks.

[Panzer Mooyman]

Chechoslowakia was formed after ww1 by the allies (to put it simple) Large parts of former Germany were Chech now. Hitler always wanted the Sudeten country back to his own Reich. (in fact he wanted the whole country)
The Germans launched a propaganda campaign that the Volksdeutschers were supressed bij the Chech's. Konrad Heinlein was a big part in this propaganda stunt, as he was the leader of the Sudentendeutsche Partei (SDP) in Chechoslowakia.

In a converence in Munchen at 29 september 1938 the big four decided to give the Sudeten to Germany. Hitler, Mussolini, Chamberlain and Daladier decided the future. The Chech's themselves had nothing to say but only to agree.

But Hitler wasnt satisfied yet. He wanted the whole country. In March he let his armys march into the rest of the country. The Chechs could only stand and watch.

Why didnt the Chechs resist? Well the political situation is hard to explain for me. As for the millitary part thats more easier. The Sudeten (and Bohemia) was the border line between the 2 countrys. The Chechs had build their own version of the Maginot line in the mountains. This was their primarily defence against Germany, and they lost it without any fight.

[Qvist]

I think it was clear to everyone, and not least to the Czechs, that they would not have stood a chance against Germany on their own - especially with a large German minority within their own borders (and in their own army). Should they have fought anyway, like the Finns did? It seems obvious it wouldn't have done them any good, probably the opposite. On the other hand, not fighting didn't do much good for national self esteem. This is still a sore and difficult point among Czechs to this day.


cheers

[Pirx]

The true is that territory of Czechoslovakia never belongs to the Germany. Before WWI it was part of Austro-Hungarian empire. When you look at the map you will see that "Sudetenland" is a territory in both sides of Sudeten mountains, wich are only in northern border of Czech republic, between cities Liberec and Ostrawa. The rest of Czechoslovakian land incorporated to third reich was Schumava (southern part) and Tshechishe Wald ("pre nazi" German name of western Czech province).
Chechoslovakian goverment resign from military resistance from three main reasons:
1. After Munich conference was clear that nobody supports Czechs.
2. In 30's not only France built fortifications along borders, Czechs spent lot of money for their own "Maginote" line, wich goes to German hands, so their strategy of defence totaly collapse.
3. Sudeten land was most indutrialized region (and still is) where are Czechoslovakian Steelmills, Coalmines, Hvy Industry Factories, so they lost capability to provide they own army (for example Skoda factories where was built famous tank 38-t).
After that in March '39 rest of Czechoslovakia was defenceless

[behblc]

With the frontier defences gone what chance of defending......the Western Powers having signed away the Czech Nation would not stand up for them.
Certainly a shameful act on the part of the UK.
"Peace in our Time!" words that would haunt Neville Chamberlain as was his words and thought that he could truct and do buisness with Herr Hitler.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Patrick,

Czechoslovak planning was premised on being aided by its contracted allies - France, Russia and the Little Entente (Yugoslavia and Romania).

However, nobody wanted Russian forces in Central Europe and the Poles and Romanians refused them passage. The Little Entente was really directed at Hungary and Bulgaria, and neither Romania nor Yugoslavia even had a common border with Germany and so the Sudeten crisis was not cause for war to them. The French (who had sponsored the Little Entente) had already lost the the best moment to stop Germany (Rhineland in 1936) and were dependent on British backing. However, the British had no contractual defensive obligations to Czechoslovakia and could only put two divisions onto the continent and so were a negligible military factor. Thus the Czechoslovaks could only be sure of themselves.

However, they were also threatened by Poland and Hungary and the Austrian Anschluss in early 1938 had opened up their southern flank, so they could not devote their entire strength to combating the Germans, especially as about a fifth of the Czechoslovak Army was made up of Sudeten Germans.

Nevertheless, they had a viable plan to abandon Bohemia and fall back on a much shorter line in Moravia. Provided their forces reached this line reasonably intact, they had a fair chance of holding out for three months, or even over the entire winter of 1938-39, which might have forced their contracted allies and Britain to intervene.

I thus think your Finnish analogy might be quite apt. The Czechoslovaks might have embarrassed the Germans over the winter, much as the Finns embarrassed the Russians a year later. However, like the Finns, they were certain to lose without external support.

There is nothing good in English. However, the Czechs have published a good deal on their order of battle. Because they had had conscription since 1920, they could mobilise about 40 divisions, which was not far short of the ±46 active divisions available to the Germans, who had little reserve manpower because the Treaty of Versailles had forbidden conscription.

The Czechs made very real efforts to build up their defences and successfully put down a Sudeten German uprising in mid September 1938, but in the end their prospects of success depended on their contracted alliances holding up, which they did not.

Cheers,

Sid.

[behblc]

Interesting points , thanks Patrick and Sid.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Behlbc,

There are a lot of misunderstandings about British contractual obligations in Eastern Europe.

The fact that Britain did not have any contractual obligation or alliance with Czechoslovakia is one.

Another is the widespread belief that Britain should have declared war when the USSR attacked Poland on 17 September 1939 for the same reason that it had declared war on Germany a fortnight earlier. In fact, the secret protocols of Britain's guarantee to Poland specified that it was directed only against a German attack.

There are others that keep coming up on Feldgrau.

Cheers,

Sid.

[C. Udentz]

One should not forget the 3,200,000 Sudeten Germans that had Czechoslovakia imposed upon them. The notion that 3,200,000 Germans could be 'incorporated' within false borders, under Czech rule is preposterous.

It would be like giving the southern English counties of Kent and East Sussex to Belgium. Imagine the outcry!

My Regards.

[Landser]

One should not forget the 3,200,000 Sudeten Germans that had Czechoslovakia imposed upon them. The notion that 3,200,000 Germans could be 'incorporated' within false borders, under Czech rule is preposterous.

It would be like giving the southern English counties of Kent and East Sussex to Belgium. Imagine the outcry!

My Regards.

This was another stupid ingenious blunder of the british/french Versailles Dictat.Of which people still suffer to this day!

[C. Udentz]

Hello Landser,

Without a doubt. They created the problem. Then blame the Germans for wanting their land returned and their people brought back into the fold.

The enemies of the Germans make false claims and continue to do so. It is no longer accepted.

Cal.

[redcoat]

Hello Landser,

Without a doubt. They created the problem. Then blame the Germans for wanting their land returned and their people brought back into the fold.

The enemies of the Germans make false claims and continue to do so. It is no longer accepted.

Cal.

Oh hum, yet another false claim by an enemy of the British.

The British agreed to the German claim on the Sudatenland, it was when he took the rest of Western Czechoslovakia ( with no german majority)that the British realised that Hitler was not too be trusted, and changed their policy towards him.

[C. Udentz]

Hello redcoat,

It is certainly not a false claim.

And I am not an enemy of the British. I could not be.

Cal.

[behblc]

Sid,
thanks for the snippet of info. re. British guarentte to Poland , could you send me by PM some further data on it thanks.
Never have seen anything of the aggreement which gave the contract to Poland and did often wonder why the USSR attack was ignored by Western Powers.
The proof of the pudding Cal is again in the grab of Czech country in total.
Hitlers inteests in obtaining " living space" went far beyond that which 1919 had taken......he just neglected to tell the German people that fact.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Behlbc,

I have the text of the 25 August Agreement. However, at the moment I am using a terminal in an institution that does not allow PMs. Remind me in a week and I will send the relevant details.

Cheers,

Sid.