Scandal-How Allies Treated German POW's

Noel Petroni · Post by **Noel Petroni** » Sun May 11, 2003 12:05 pm

Maybe it's not a good idea to write about this, but I get really frustrated when I read about injustice, especially when the ones that do it are the ones that pictured themselves as being perfect.

I read an article of a certain Michael Walsh, of how the badly the British treated the German POW's.

The article goes on to say thet "...exposes aillied genocide, enslavement and institutionalized ill treatment of axis POW's both during and after WWII"......"British guards imprisoned German troops and tortured them".

Even German civilians and children were badly treated! It seems to me that the Allies had a field day after the war at getting their revange on what was made to believe that the Germans were evil people!!!

Can these people ever be brought to justice???? Can the prosecuters of Kurt Mayer (who was a Canadian soldier and just wanted revange on Meyer), Piper and the many other German soldiers who suffered unjust actions, ever be put to shame??????

A lot of the truth has come out now, and we all know what it is!

Regards
Noel

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Tue May 13, 2003 7:04 pm

Noel,
Interesting topic, there is evidence to suggest that members of the 28 Battalion (Maori) 2nd NZ Division made a meal of German POW or parts of them.
There are grounds for investigation into many allied war-crimes it would make an interesting book.

Bellerophon · Post by **Bellerophon** » Tue May 27, 2003 12:22 pm

This man seems to me to be rather selecive in his criticism because whilst he devotes a large part of his piece to lampooning the allies for widespread atrocities, he claims that "the German armed forces behaved impeccably towards their prisoners-of-war".

Michael Walsh seems to be working to an agenda, I would advise others not to base their posts solely on his articles.

file · Post by **file** » Tue May 27, 2003 2:35 pm

transfering the german pows into the russian hands, while being completly aware of what is going to happen to them is something they shoul also be trialed for! giving a prisoner into the hands of his executioner makes you equally guiilty! at least thats my view!

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Wed May 28, 2003 3:43 am

Hi Guys,

The title of this thread - Scandal-How Allies Treated German POWs - presumes a case without producing any evidence to support it.

What treatment, where, when, by who, on who?

Where can we find the article by "a certain Michael Walsh"?

What does it say?

I am not saying that there is no case to answer. Only that it is not presented here.

Cheers,

Sid.

Bellerophon · Post by **Bellerophon** » Wed May 28, 2003 4:10 am

The article can be found Here

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Wed May 28, 2003 4:45 am

Hi Bellerophon,

I have had quick look.

It is very shoddily researched.

I will return to this tomorrow, but I give just one example now:

"The latter, forerunners to the evil KGB, were invited to assist the British in the capture, coralling, deportation and slaughter of the captives."

So Michael Walsh proposes that the KGB were enlisted by the British, who "deported and slaughtered" Cossacks?

Is this to be taken seriously? Neither Bethel nor Tolstoy made such a claim.

Cheers,

Sid.

Noel Petroni · Post by **Noel Petroni** » Wed May 28, 2003 10:33 pm

I can e-mail the article to those interested, that I received from a friend of mine regarding this subject.

Let us not be blind, but understand that the Allies were just at atrocious as much as they say the Germans were. I will never believe that the Allies were angles!

I think Kust Meyer's trial was a shame and totally unjust. It was an example of how the Victor can get his revange. Pipers trial was as equal.

Please understand me, my anger is not towards the Allies but at the whole concept of how many and many people (who are not keen on WWII) have still the idea that the Germans were the evil soldiers and the Allies the goodies.

And it angers my also to understand that many Allies got away with murder after the war. We know that many Germans (including many innocent ones) have been brought to justice...................what about the Allies..................????????

Regards
Noel

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Thu May 29, 2003 5:09 am

Hi Noel,

I am quite prepared to say that the Western Allies were largely on the side of relative good and Germany was on the side of relative evil.

This doesn't mean that I believe that all Germans (or even most Germans) were evil or that all the Western Allies were utterly wholesome and good. Nor do I know of anyone who claims this.

Some months ago I asked on Feldgrau for any published statement that equates Germans and Nazism. Nobody came up with a single quote.

The idea that anyone holds the simple "All Western Allies Good: All Germans Bad" view is nonsense. You are arguing against a proposition that simply does not exist.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To return to the article.

Apart from the ludicrous proposition that the predecessors of the KGB assisted the British in genocide rather than the other way round, which no book (Tolstoy, Bethel, Other Losses) on the subject does, there are numerous weaknesses. Here are a few gleaned from a very quick once over:

An eye witness account described as "typical of many accounts" (none of which are given, incidently) opens "I can't say for certain what happened....". Such evidence wouldn't have much credibility in court.

8th Waffen-SS Division was not a mountain division.

The word "slave" is repeatedly used. However, in not one single case is there a specific reference supplied that can be followed up.

It contends that Germany respected the Geneva Convention, but overlooks entirely the millions of Russian POWs who died in German captivity.

It quotes one witness of German prisoners in British hands as writing, "The only difference I can see between these men and those corpses (in Belsen) is that they are still breathing." A rather crucial distinction, I would have thought, and one which emphasises that, however bad British treatment of some German POWs may have been, they are not to be equated with the much greater horrors perpetrated within the German camp.

It states of the book "The Last Secret" written by Nicholas Bethel in the 1970s that, "The British legal apparatus suppressed further accounts." This is untrue. I have bought both a hardback and paperback version of this book in the last three years. It is freely available.

I have no objection to British War Criminals being pursued and British War Crimes being investigated. There are highly likely to have been some of both. However, weak articles such as this do nothing to advance the case because they are shoddily researched from secondary material.

However, I do object to attempts to equate the clearly systematic war crimes of Nazi Germany, which largely do not rest on their treatment of Western military POWs, with more occasional lapses by the Western Allies. The evidence for such an equation is simply not there.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It is not necessary for Noel to e-mail the article under discussion. Anyone wanting to read it simply has to click on "here" in Bellerophon's post.

Cheers,

Sid.

Bellerophon · Post by **Bellerophon** » Thu May 29, 2003 6:36 am

For those viewing this topic who want a broader view on the author of the original article, Michael Walsh, I advise you to read his book"Witness to History" where he, amongst other things, claims that -

"The first acts of aggression of the Second World War were carried out by the Polish armed forces in a serious of serious border attacks which took place over a considerable period of time. Repeated complaints by German were answered by further military border violations"

Abwehr · Post by **Abwehr** » Thu May 29, 2003 1:17 pm

LOL! Uh, ok...

True, the Poles did violate German territory several times between the World Wars, but this was by no means a part of the Second World War.

Bellerophon · Post by **Bellerophon** » Thu May 29, 2003 3:55 pm

I agree Abwehr, I was just trying to show those who made the initial post here that Mr Walsh, whose article they were basig their views upon, has made some ridiculous statements, like the one in my previous post. I do not in any way agree with him.

Wurger · Post by **Wurger** » Sat May 31, 2003 11:05 pm

From what I've read of Walsh thus far, his work is of the same caliber as James Bacque - which, for those of you unfamiliar with him, is extremely poor.

While I'm the first to admit that the Allies were no saints, these so-called "revisionists" hoping to expose major allied "attrocities" are trying to spin straw into gold. The hard facts are either misinterpreted or ignored altogether.

FYI, Kurt Meyer's trial was a joke. He went from war criminal to celebrated hero in a matter of five years, spent minimal time in prison, and went on to be a central figure in the HIAG. I'd hardly call that harsh punishment for killing unarmed prisoners . . .

Regards,

Wurger

sonar · Post by **sonar** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:47 am

I think there are some very dodgy opinions on these forums.I think walshs site link should be removed otherwise you may as well post up links to the bnp and combat 18 sites so all the sad little tossers like petroni and sunlife can get together with others of their ilk.petroni how can you quote someone like walsh?have you seen what he says about the Jews?hes actually spouting that old "Jewish world conspiracy" @#% and other terrible nonsense.These people use the freedom that had to be won for them to espouse views that echo those of the regime that attacked that same freedom Every town and village has its own war memorial and these people should try thinking about what these represent once in a while because a fading name on a half forgotten granite coloum is what these boys got in return for their young lives and im sure theyd be spinning in their graves to see how their memory is degraded and their legacy abused

Noel Petroni · Post by **Noel Petroni** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 4:12 pm

I received an e-mail about the topic written by Walsh. Now, I don't know who this man is but why should I not believe what he has published.

If most of you say Walsh is not genuine in what he declares, don't you think some little part may be true?

I think it's about time someone published something like this. I believe some truth lies there some where in what he says.

Wurger, I don't believe that Kurt Meyer killed or ordered any such command. Do you believe that most Luftwaffe and SS prisinors were shot on the spot by British and Americian soldiers??????

I think that the film "Band of Brothers" is quite accurate, and it shows similar incidents.

Regards
Noel