Scandal-How Allies Treated German POW's

[Orzel]

For those viewing this topic who want a broader view on the author of the original article, Michael Walsh, I advise you to read his book"Witness to History" where he, amongst other things, claims that -

"The first acts of aggression of the Second World War were carried out by the Polish armed forces in a serious of serious border attacks which took place over a considerable period of time. Repeated complaints by German were answered by further military border violations"

Whoever in their mind wants to think that this dribble is true?
The only thing even close to a "violation" was in 1934 when a general alarm throughout the Polish military. Had the spineless French given us their support we could have eliminated Hitler in 1934 and saved millions of lives. However this is a seperate incident and most troops never even left their garrisons.
Like it or not Hitler was a cancer on the body of Europe and needed to be removed with a scalpel. If anything Pilsudski should be commended on having the forethought and the guts to try to remove him, unlike some of your "great" western politicians who pretty much bent over for Adolf and let him stick it in their collective ass. I take insult to anyone who even insinuates that somehow it was the Poles who provoked the germans into WWII. Anyone with such posts should be banned immediately as they are clearly a nazi, why else would anyone spread further nazi propaganda?

[Orzel]

I can not believe what im reading in this topic, it seems that some people on here actually would like to equate germany with the allies in terms of morality and justice. How dare you? By saying what you are you are not only lying and twisting history you are insulting and spitting on the graves of the tens of millions of people murdered by the Germans. Germany got everything it deserved if not too little in terms of punishement. Keep in mind what kind of "justice" they showed to conquered nations. Germany started the war, perpetrated crimes beyond imagination and Germany lost the war as such punishement was mandatory, what the hell did you expect the allies to give the Nazi bastards some chocolates?

Dear Hans, good job working the gas chambers today, heres a hershey bar.
,regards FDR!

Is that what you would like, if it was then you clearly agree and admire what the germans were doing in the war and as such you are a nazi sympathesizer. To even insinuate that the treatment of Germany post WWII was unjust is in my eyes an act of lunacy, if you play with fire you will get burned and lets face the facts gentlemen, the treatment of germany was 1/10000000000000000th of the brutality the germans used.


Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek, Belsen-Belsen, Sobibor, Dachau etc.

Thats it conversation over you german and nazi loving swine!
(directed at all those who lament the poor innocent germans)

Just be glad that no new Fuhrer has come along yet, as if that happens German will most likely become a dead language.

[Reb]

I wasn't aware that looking objectively at history made on a nazi. In fact, I certain that is nothing but hogwash.

Be a little more circumspect about calling people names.

Reb

[Noel Petroni]

Orzel wrote:

Had the spineless French given us their support we could have eliminated Hitler in 1934 and saved millions of lives.

What makes you think that Hitler was the only evil man in the world?

You know what? The Americans & British go after the evil man ONLY if they know they can win!

Stalin was evil! The Americans could have saved millions if they got rid of him!

If you read Berlin the Downfall by A. Beevor, you will come to understand the misery and pain the German civilians went through.

If England were against Germany for attacking Poland......why didn't they stop Russia from occupying it?

[Noel Petroni]

(German) Children as young as six years of age, pregnant women, men over 60, were among the prisoners in these camps. Because no records were made in the DEF [Disarmed Enemy Forces] camps, and most of the POW records were destroyed in the 1950s no one knows how many civilians were imprisoned, but French reports show that among [one batch of] about 100,000 people the Americans turned over to them supposedly for labor, there were 32,640 women, children and old men. Lt. Colonel Valentine Barnes, making his report on Bad Kreuznach, noted on April 22 that "a female infant was born to a female prisoner of war in enclosure A-3."

One US Army officer who read the posted order in May 1945 has written that it was 'the intention of Army command regarding the German POW camps in the US Zone from May 1945 through the end of 1947 to exterminate as many POWs as the traffic would bear without international scrutiny'.

James Bacque

Now....many would come up and say, James Bacque is not a reliable source! (That's how the story goes). However, if there is something witten against the Germans....somehow it's reliable source!

Howcome all the atrocities claimed against the Germans are believed to be reliable (even if today they are being doubted)?

Howcome scarce evidence is found of atrocities made by the British and Americans? For heavens sake, they were the victors and wrote history!

[Noel Petroni]

Orzel wrote

Thats it conversation over you german and nazi loving swine!
(directed at all those who lament the poor innocent germans)

I'm not interested in the politics of war, therefore I'm not a Nazi!

I'm only interested in human rights.......this is something that the German soldiers and population did not get at the last days of the war and after!!!!

As far as human rights go........the Americans are still at it today! Take a look at the prision camps in Iraq!!!!! Are these a new breed of Americans or the same mentality was used in WWII????????

[Grunt]

Germany got everything it deserved if not too little in terms of punishement.

Nothing to comment, must be a very wise man who wrote this.

(Pssst, Orzel: where do you get this obviously great stuff? Could you hand me over the cell phone number of your dealer?)

[Gerhard]

Orzel
Fortunately vindictive and hateful people like you are in the minority.
Unfortunately they make the most noise with their need for vengeance and threats.
Do us all a favour and take a couple of ExLax or maybe a swig of Castor oil, it may help.
Gerhard

[Orzel]

Oh youd like for me to take a swig of oil wouldnt you or perhaps a strong swiff of cyclon b? You germans are very good at telling others what to do as in taking imaginary showers, digging large graves in unmarked locations etc.
Why dont you tell us Gerhard how many undesirables you disposed off? hmm? share with us the glorious past of the Aryan warrior? You keep claiming about this honor of the SS outfit you belonged to, what exactly was so honorable about it, surpassing the quota in filling massgraves with civilians you butchered? or using up the most cyclon B? or perhaps shitting your pants while running from the Soviets?

Oddly enough in everyone's Ubermensch flavored respones they all omitted my list of german run "health resorts" for the populations of conquered nations, its as if germans would like to omit that glorious part of their past. Whats the matter conscience eating at you?

To the gentleman from malta, it would appear that you have your facts backwards, Im not denying that the german population was punished by the allies, Im simply stating that it was a deserved punishement for the horrors the germans more than willingly and with their usual love for rape pillage and plunder committed against most of Europe. If anything the punishement did not fit the crime as the punishement was too lenient.

Perhaps this may sound crude to westerners, however I have to remind the Americans, Brits, Aussies etc, what was said in a Polish War movie when a character was questioned on the treatment of the Germans, "You Americans have soft hearts and the reason why you have soft hearts is because Auschwitz and others were not meant intentded for you or never used on your people." Im quite certain that had Americans or Australians been on the "list" for the camps your attitude towards the germans would be a lot less humanitarian even 60 years later.

Cant you people(im referring to the non-germans on the forum0 see this is exatly what im reffering to as the eternal fountain of german hate, extermination and race wars are nothing new for this nation they have been at this from the times of the Teutonic kinghts through Adolf. its in their blood to hate us and regard as subhuman. Im not writing this out of some irrational hate towards the german people, I've met several nice people from germany, however I do believe in justice and my sense of justice dictates that germany started the war and deserved to get punished. Any sort of explainations, "mitigating circumstances" etc dont apply. go for a tour of Auschwitz(as I did in 2000) and then talk to me about unjust punishement of the german people after the war. And now in 2004 to hear some germans and other to actually claim that their punishement was "undeserved' scares the @#% out of me because its a clear indicator that were beginning to forget and warp our history. Its almost as if those events from 1939-1945 caused by the germans werent real. Well let me tell you gentlemen they were real, i know because I saw entire rooms filled with prosthetic arms, eyeglasses, human hair, childrens dolls etc.

[Reb]

So Germans that had nothing to do with Nazi crimes should be punished collectively? Wasn't collective punishment by race and nationality the very crime for which you want to punish the Germans? Do you see the irony here? You come across sounding like Julius Streicher in reverse - I suggest you consider that very carefully.

The last I heard the people who committed those crimes were tried and hanged. So why beat up on Germans who had nothing to do with it?

Should we punish the Russians (ALL the Russians) for Stalin's crimes? Were their crimes not equally wicked? (Answer 'no' and your credibility drops to zero) And who gets to decide which nation should be punished as a people for the crimes of their leaders? I can't think of any nations that strike me as so moral as to make that determination.

It might be better not to waste so much bandwidth on a research site spewing vitriol. Most of us are students of the second world war and the German Army - as are the Israeli and American Military, both of whom have modeled much of their tactics on doctrine developed by the Germans. Germans who were soldiers - not KZ guards or nazi party officials - just plain ole soldiers who like any other soldiers get exactly no say in the policies set down by their leaders.

They call it military science for a reason - it is not about politics.

I for one had relatives in both the pacific and European theaters - should I therefore hate the Japanese and Germans? If you think I should I can only wonder how you expect there to ever be peace among nations.

That some members of this forum have raised issues involving allied atrocities may offend you - but since you condemn the Germans so volubly for committing crimes I can only ask - are war crimes bad only when Germans commit them? Not much of a moral code if that is the case.

Talking about the German people as criminal throughout their history is disingenous at best - and downright silly. There has only been a Germany since the late nineteenth century. Are Saxons included in your diatribe? How about Bavarians? Austrians?

There is much to be learned from history - shouting at folks only impedes that process. You would do better to address specifics - if you don't agree with a point someone has made - refute it with facts. Name calling and imprecations reflect very poorly on you.

Reb

[Orzel]

fact- Germany invaded poland in 1939, and was not provoked into doing so as stated by some on this forum , oddly enough no one protested to that pile of manure of a statement.
fact - Germans butchered 6 million Poles in those years
fact - due to the unfortunate political situation Western germany was rebuilt by the Allies and enjoyed a period of economic wealth etc, whereas Poland as a country whos suffering surpassed( in terms per capita anyways) was sold into soviet slavery for another 40 years.
As I was saying you Americans can forgive the germans all you want but your forgiveness means nothing since the germans werent hellbent on eliminating you from the face of the earth. This is not an issue hating germans, this is simply an issue of guilt. And I will not stand by quietly while someone chooses to twist history around and attempt to make germany appear to be the victim instead of the butcher.

[Noel Petroni]

Orzel, I'm the gentleman from Malta!

The Germans bombed the hell out of my country..........should I hate the German people.....should I hate the pilots that threw the bombs or the person responsible that gave the order?

I admire the German people. I admire them because they are an example to other countries. They are a people that don't cry over spilt milk but get themselves together and start over again. They are an organized people.

In WWII the American were amazed at how after a bomb raid the people would just go outside and start cleaning up the streets and piling the cobblestones in piles of orderly fashion!

It was not the German people that made war...it was Hitler and his political administration. The soldiers, SS or Army, were just boys called up for war. It was Hitler that marched them into hell!

Today, I dislike the American administration, and it's use of power! I don't agree how they meddle in the politics of the middle-east! Does this mean I hate the American people? No!

Punish those that need to be punished!

[Gerhard]

Orzel
When it comes to butchering perhaps somebody should remind you of all the people driven from their homes in what is now part of Poland and the millions which perished during this trip besides all those killed after the war in Polish prison camps.
You had your revenge. It included my brothers wife, her old parents and my nephew, a baby.
Many atrocities were committed, some for vengeance, justice or just evil. Call it what you like..
The victims of this horrible war are at rest now and hopefully the bastards responsible for it are burning in hell.
We need to remember all this happened over 50 years ago and learn from it, hopefully perhaps there is not going to be a next time.
Gerhard
By the way my parents taught to treat others like I would like to be treated myself. I did and have no trouble remembering my conduct in those years.
If you are around my age 78 - how is your conscience ?

[Grunt]

Orzel,

its in their blood to hate us and regard as subhuman

I do not hate you (or any other polish people), nor I regard anyone (polish or not) as a "subhuman". Maybe I should check my ancestors for evidence of "non-german blood"?

@ all:

It is good, and a great relief, to read that most people in many countries do not establish a "german=nazi" link, and also see the difference between the Third Reich and the Federal Republic of Germany.

Thank you very much.

[Ironrat]

I will not comment Orzeł writings. I think it is useles.
A few words for Gerhard
To be precise up to 1946 around 3 millions germans were "relocated".
The peoples that should burn in hell for this are :
Stalin, Churchill and Roosvelt. It was their decision at Yalta to change borders and relocate peoples. They didn't care if they were poles, germans or chinese.
The responsible of thousands of germans deaths during the winter 1945 (wery cold winter) during the crazy escape is Erich Koch. He was governor of Prussia (gauleiter) during WWII. He gave the order move peoples. He made a promess to them: ships are waiting for you to evacuate you and your families - they were none. He was so affraid of hiis crimes, that after the war he didn't go back to Germany and was hiding in Poland. Captured, he did get a life sentence. He sould get more, but some peoples belived that he had some valuable information.
Ironrat