Did US Army have War Diaries in WW2 … (?)

[Mikeo066]

I’m trying to find out about the 129th Signal Radio Intelligence Company. They were part of the 6th Army Group in the European Theater of Operations, US Army. I also have a note that the 129th was assigned to the Fifteenth (15th) Army.

The company took part in the Ardennes-Alsace Campaign, and was in the Rhineland.

From 2 May - 31 October 1945, the unit was in occupied Germany.

As mentioned in ‘Canucks by the Sea – The Canadian Army in Eastbourne during the Second World War’, in March 1944 the unit operated a radio intercept station near Eastbourne in East Sussex, England.

Someone has provided the following passing reference to the 129th SRIC:-

"The 3262d Signal Service Company was activated in England on 9 November
1944 ... 1st Lt. Fred T. O'Day, 01638182, who had been designated as
commanding officer, returned from his former assignment with the 129th
Signal Radio Intelligence Company in France and assumed command on the same
date.”

Will I be able to find official war diaries, as with British and Commonwealth forces? If so, where?

I presume there must be a US Army forum similar to Feldgrau.net; can someone pse advise? Perhaps I can find out if there is an official history and locate some former members of this unit.

Comments greatly appreciated …

Mike

[John W. Howard]

Hi Mike:
There will be various records from AG on down. I am not sure what might exist for a non-combat unit, but a smart move would be to write to the US National Archives in Maryland and ask for some help. We have guys here who live close such as Abicht, who may be able to help you sooner, but research fees are expensive. I am writing this quickly as I have little time, but I will get back with a link or two and more info soon. Best wishes.

[John W. Howard]

Hi Mike:
If there any records to be had on this unit, and I suppose there will be some, they would probably be in the the US National Archives or NARA. Records Group 407 would probably be your starting point; it contains lists of records of various sizes of US military formations. If this unit fought with the US 6th Army Group, its records would probably be found in 6th Army Group records. It might be wise to write to the NARA and ask for a copy of the "Finding Aid" for the unit you are looking for, in this case probably the 6th Army Group. I wonder how much information is available since this was a signals intelligence unit; some may have been, or still be classified. The information wouldn't still need to be secret, but the methods employed to gain it might still be. The NARA has a web-site; give it a GOOGLE and search for your unit and see what turns up. There are also numerous people on this site with much more expertise than I on NARA; try a search here on Feldgrau, and you will find much info. Best wishes and Bon Chance, Mon Ami

[Mikeo066]

Thanks, John.

Your two postings contain a lot of very useful leads. I can see that it will be quite a job, but am getting a lot of help and will report back in due course.

M

[Rich]

I’m trying to find out about the 129th Signal Radio Intelligence Company. They were part of the 6th Army Group in the European Theater of Operations, US Army. I also have a note that the 129th was assigned to the Fifteenth (15th) Army.
Mike

Hi Mike,

No, US Army units did not keep "War Diaries", those were something elitist "Urpeen" armies kept.

Seriously, a major fault in the American Army was that record keeping was not standardized, Army Regulations as mandated by Congress only required (then and now) that a "historical record" be kept of operations, without defining what those records should include, which left it pretty much an independent decsion by each unit and the poor schmo chosen to maintain those records (still a job to be fobbed off on the most junior officer in many units). Worse, since the Army expanded from an officer corps prewar of about 13,797 Regulars, 21,074 National Guardsmen, and 33,000 Reserves, of whom only a smal percentage had completed a Staff Officers course at the tiny Command and General Staff School, there was also no "generally accepted" form for writing or keeping such records, or even what they should contain.

The upshot is that units keep records, but for various purposes and of various degrees of completeness. Typically, all units kept "journals", either a genaralized, all-encompassing daily journal of messages and orders at the company level, individual staff section (S-1, S-2, S-3, and S-4) journals at the battalion/regiment level, or individual general staff section (G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, G-5, and Special Staffs - Artillery, Armor, etc) at higher echelons. Battalion-echelons and above also routinely prepared a "record of events" report that were variously called "After Action Reports, "Reports After Action", "Record of Events", and "Historical Reports". Typically those were monthly periodic reports, including a narrative of daily events and summaries of important items of data such as casualties, equipment losses, and ammunition expenditures for combat and combat support units.

The kicker is that such extensive hiostorical documentation was rarely prepared by company echelon service and support units such as you are looking at. Typical documentation for them will include a bare bones "record of events" that mostly tallies where the unit was and a file of General Orders that recorded changes of command, promotions, and awards. Otherwise, a true "record of events" for such units is only available by revieweing the Company Morning Reports held at the US National Archives-administered National Personnel Records Center at St. Louis, MO. Morning Reports were the basic personnel accounting report prepared every day - in theory - for every company-sized unit in the Army. But again, for a non-combat unit the Record of Events may not be very revealing.

Finally, the source for all other records of units filed with the Adjutant General of the Army is Record Group 407, Entry 427, which are all held at the US National Archives (NARA), Archives II, College Park, MD. As John mentioned, the "finding aid" for the National Archives is available online. Unfortunately, it is not the same as an Archives Catalogue as is found online for the British National Archives, which is an inventory and a listing of how the files are requested by a researcher. The online NARA catalogue is only an inventory listing, none of the actual finding aides that document how those files are requested are online - those must be viewed at the reading room in College Park. Worse, even many of the finding aides were originally prepared decades ago, when the archives were in a different facility, with a different system for tracking the individual record boxes, and are only slowly being updated. The upshot is that the Archives personnel will not act as a remote finding aid and do not handle finding requests. Instead, you either have to visit them yourself or hire a professional to do the work for you, which can be expensive (I charge a $400/day minimum for such work, and understand I am on the lower end of the price scale, but I only do such work infrequently as a sideline). And, yes, the "system" is truly that Byzantine.

However, one other thing. The 129th was a Signal Radio Intelligence Company. The records of those units were very tightly classified into the late 1980s, since they were "cutting edge" intelligence technologies and some of their personnel were often BIGOTED (had access to ULTRA knowledge or other TS knowledge). You could be in luck in that by their nature some of their reports were complex analysis of intelligence procedures and the resulting "product". Those records were held in TS Compartmented storage by the National Security Agency (NSA) until they began to be declassified in the mid 1980s after ULTRA was revealed. A good possible source for you would be Record Group 457, the records of the NSA and especially the series of Special Research Histories (SRH).

Sorry for rambling, but hope that helps.

Rich

[Mikeo066]

Well, Rich, I've struck gold before with RQs on forums ... but your reply is so comprehensive and generous! Thank you very much.

I can see that the whole thing is complex. But at least I know where I am ... and so does everyone else reading this thread. It's been hard to get chapter and verse.

In the UK, the War Diaries are so easy to access. I've been spoiled with the NA at Kew ... near enough for a day trip and nice B+Bs at hand, too.

However, I've made some good contacts with people who were in SIGINT and I'm hoping for the best.

And I always did intend to go back to the US for another visit one day ...

Once again, very many thanks indeed for your generous and detailed help.

M

[Rich]

Well, Rich, I've struck gold before with RQs on forums ... but your reply is so comprehensive and generous! Thank you very much.

You're very welcome. I forgot to add though, that ISTR that Hyperwar used to have some of the SRH reports available online, you might do a search for them there?

In the UK, the War Diaries are so easy to access. I've been spoiled with the NA at Kew ... near enough for a day trip and nice B+Bs at hand, too.

Kew is a model that every archival facility around the world should strive to emulate. Wonderfully well organized and helpful. In four trips there over the years, totaling five weeks of work, I was probably as productive as I can be in five months or more work at NARA. The staff at NARA do try, but are hampered by the system, which so obviously affects their performance and attitude.

BTW, where have you stayed? Mrs. Grey's is quite nice.

And I always did intend to go back to the US for another visit one day ...

If you do feel free to drop me a PM, it would be a pleasure to give you advice and assistance.

Once again, very many thanks indeed for your generous and detailed help.

M

Cheers!

Rich

[Mikeo066]

Just picked up your post ... all noted with thanks.

About Kew, I always stay with Mr + Mrs Cellan Jones. Wonderful breakfasts and only 10 minutes' walk from the NA. (Still prefer to call it the PRO)

ATB

M