5th Indian Infantry Brigade

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David W
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5th Indian Infantry Brigade

Post by David W »

Can anyone place the 5th Indian Infantry Brigade in June 1940?

I know it was in Egypt during the September, but can't place it before then.

Thanks.
Thanks. Dave.
David W
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Post by David W »

How about the 7th Indian Infantry Brigade on the same date?
Thanks. Dave.
daveh
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Post by daveh »

7th Indian Infantry Brigade was formed in late September 1939 under the HQ Deccan district. This HQ was reformed as the 5th Indian Division in June 1940

Most of the 5th Indian Division was ordered to Port Sudan in response to the Italian threat from Eritrea, arriving form mid September 1940.

However at the end of September 1940 the 7th Indian Infantry Brigade left Bombay and moved to Egypt to join the 4th Indian Division, arriving in early October 1940. The 7th Indian Infantry Brigade stayed on Lines of Communication duties completing its training and re equipment to bring it in line with the rest of the 4th Indian Division. The 10th British Brigade continued as the 4th's Divisions 3rd Brigade.
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Post by David W »

Brilliant :D

Thank you :D
Thanks. Dave.
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Post by David W »

If I'm not pushing my luck? How about the 11th Indian Infantry Brigade?
Thanks. Dave.
daveh
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Post by daveh »

The 11th Indian Infantry Brigade:

Left India for the Middle East in August 1939.

It was joined by the 5th Indian Infantry Brigade and the rest of the 4th Indian Division in Egypt in Oct 1939.

Underwent extensive training in Egypt.

In 3rd week of August 1940 was part of the 4th Indian Division when this advanced and established its base at Mersa Matruh.

source David Hughes Volume 8 of The British Armies in WW2 an Organisational history

next? :D
David W
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Post by David W »

Thanks.
next?
You're on! :D
Thanks. Dave.
David W
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Post by David W »

Arrival of Indian 161st Infantry Brigade in Egypt.
I can place them there at end of July 1941. But don't know when they actually arrived.
Thanks. Dave.
daveh
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Post by daveh »

did I really say next?...oh well :D

Originally the 161st Indian Infantry Brigade was a British first line territorial Army Brigade forming part of the 54th (East Anglian) Infantry Division and consisted of:

1st/4th Bn Essex Regiment
1st/5th Bn Essex Regiment
2nd/5th Bn Essex Regiment

1st/4th Bn Essex Regiment embarked at Liverpool 5/8/40 arriving in Freetown, Sierra Leone on 31/8/40.

Brigade HQ and 2nd/5th Bn Essex Regiment left Glasgow 17/12/40 and joined the 1st/4th, arriving in Sierra Leone 5/1/41.

The 2 Bns and the Brigade HQ left Freetown on 19/6/41 and arrived at Poprt Tewfik, Egypt early July 1941.

1st/5th Bn Essex Regiment remained in England, joining the 43rd (Wessex) Division until 2/41. It left England on 25/6/41 and went straight to Egypt arriving 22/8/41. Here it rejoined the other 2 Bns and the Brigade HQ.

The 2 Bns and the Brigade HQ first moved to El Tahag camp
5/8/41 it moved to Sidi Haneish mainly for training , under command of 11th Indian Infantry Brigade.

mid 9 41 the 3 Bn Brigade moved forward to defend the landing grounds at Sid Barani

10/41 it was decided that several of the Indian Army brigades in the Middle East should acquire a British infantry battalion. The 161st British Infantry Brigade was unattached at this time and hence was available as a source of such battalions.

16/10/41 Sidi Haneish the 161st British Infantry Brigade was reformed as the 161st Indian Infantry Brigade consisting of

1st/4th Bn Essex Regiment
3rd/7th Rajput Regiment, from garrison duties at Port Tewfik
4th /7th Rajput Regiment, from garrison duties at Port Said.
Brigade services came from those recently formed by the 38th Indian Infantry Brigade

1st/5th Bn Essex Regiment went to 18th Indian Infantry Brigade, 8th Indian Division
2nd/5th Bn Essex Regiment went to 19th Indian Infantry Brigade, 8th Indian Division

161st Indian Infantry Brigade left Egypt 6/11/41 to serve as a garrison unit on Cyprus.
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Post by David W »

Thank you for a very lengthy & detailed answer. :D
Thanks. Dave.
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Post by David W »

When did 1/1 Punjabi join 161st Indian Infantry Brigade?
Also, I have 3/7 Rajputana in 21st Indian Infantry Brigade, but that might have been in 1942.
Thanks. Dave.
daveh
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Post by daveh »

The 161st Indian Infantry Brigade left Cyprus in March 1942. It moved to Khataba on 17/4/42 where the 1st Battalion/1st Punjab Regiment (from the 5th Indian Brigade) joined the Brigade.

The 3rd battalion/7th Rajput Regiment formed part of the 161st Indian Infantry Brigade at the Brigades formation on 16/10/41. It remained with the Brigade on its move to Cyprus and on its return to Egypt.

On 30th June the Brigade joined 10th Armoured Division and then was attached to the 5th Indian Division on 20th July

July 42 the 161st Indian Infantry division had:
1/2 Punjab Regimant
1/2 Punjab Regimant
3/7 Rajput Regimant

The 3rd battalion/7th Rajput Regiment suffered heavily during fighting on Deir el Abydad .

The Brigade was relieved on the 26th July and moved to the rear for rest and recovery until 13th August. It was converted back into an infantry Brigade.
The 3rd battalion/7th Rajput Regiment left the Brigade for garrison duties, initially in Egypt. (I have a reference for the 3rd battalion/7th Rajput Regiment being in the 21st Indian Infantry Brigade in late 1942). Then at Aden (1943), Cyprus (early 1944) and Palestine (late 1944 and into 1945)
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Post by David W »

Complex :?

But thanks. :D


How about the Central India Horse? Didn't they convert from infantry to cavalry? Or was it the other way round? I know they were in theatre on and off @1940 - 1942.

Cheers; O fount of great knowledge :wink: :D
Thanks. Dave.
daveh
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Post by daveh »

in 1940 the Central India Horse was a Cavalry Regiment to be used as a divisional recce unit. It joined the 4th Indian Division in Egypt in August 1940 and was a fully motorised regiment. Its equipment consisted of carriers and light trucks.

During Op. Compass the Central India Horse was detached from the division and operated with Selby Force. On 16/12/40 the 4th Indian Division, including the Central India Horse, was ordered to East Africa. There it fought in the East African campaign being used as part of the pursuit force after the battle of Keren. On 29/3/41 the 4th Indian Division, including the Central India Horse was ordered back to Egypt..

During Op. Battleaxe the Central India Horse was attached to the 11th Indian Infantry Brigade under HQ 4th Indian Division. Its equipment still consisted of carriers and trucks. For Op. Crusader (18/11/41) the Central India Horse was part of the Advance Guard Group of the 4th Indian Division.

When Rommel attacked in Jan. 1942 the Central India Horse was forced to retreat from Benghazi 28/1/42 with the 7th Indian Infantry Brigade.

In early April 1942 the 4th Indian Division was ordered to disperse.

The 10th Armoured Division was expected in Egypt late April 1942. To provide it with a motor brigade 2 Indian cavalry regiments moved to Khataba Camp, namely Skinner's Horse and the Central India Horse. These were to form part of the 10th Indian Motor Brigade. It was at this stage that the Central India Horse was changed into a motorised infantry unit. It now had 2 motor and one A.T. squadrons. In July 1942 the A.T. squadron had 16 2 pdr guns.

Eventually the Central India Horse went (I think in early 1943) to Iraq / Persia for garrison duties. From there it eventually returned to the 4th Indian Division in Italy
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Post by David W »

Thanks again mate! :D

Any idea of the nubers of carriers/Lt trucks involved?
Thanks. Dave.
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