SS Camo smocks and shoulder boards?

[Daryl]

Hi all

Ive not seen any pictures with smocks that have shoulder boards. would have officers taken the iniative and sewn them on?..

Its just that ive purchased some figures that I wish to paint.. and the officer figures even though its clear they are wearing smocks there are also shoulder boards present.

I want to keep them correct, so is there a chance they would have had them?

Any help would be appreciated....

Regards

Daryl

[Paul Hanson]

Just running thru my books quickly I would have to say no. When you do see shoulderboards they are usually on a camo tunic either as supplied or custom made.

PH

[charlie don't surf]

In 'panzergrenadiers in action' it is noted that rank insignia should be visible as required by standing orders. Even if rank insignia often wasn't shown this 'standing order' gives the motive to have shoulder boards on camo smocks.

regards

[Daryl]

Thanks guys for replying..

I just had another long look though my books and found no pics or any mention of shoulder boards on smocks..

But like Charlie said, nothing stopping an Officer taking the iniative and doing it himself...

I may paint them as shoulder boards, to try and paint them as the rest of the smocks just doesnt look good, they stand out a mile.. It just looks like ive painted over the shoulder boards no matter how I try to disguise them

Thanks again for the effort..

ps. Charlie dont surf lol, great line from a great movie

[charlie don't surf]

Do as you wish but i've never seen any shoulder boards on a camouflage smock. What kind of figures is it and what type of smock? I'd be careful in having shoulder boards on smocks, I'd probably carve them off.

regards

[Daryl]

They are 20mm by Britannia miniatures

heres a url of one of them..not the officers..didnt want to paint them until I sorted this riddle out..

As you can see the camo aint quite right but as its only 20mm its ok.

I never thought about cutting/scraping the boards off...that would be easy enough.. problem solved thx

Daryl

http://mysite.freeserve.com/bkpainting/ ... _index.htm

[charlie don't surf]

Yes do that. Britannia isn't famous for historically correct figures, sorry.

regards

[Paul Hanson]

Sorry, Daniel, I have to disagree with "the insignia should be visible as required by standing orders. Even if rank insignia often wasn't shown this 'standing order' gives the motive to have shoulder boards on camo smocks." For example, with collar patch ranks, most W-SS men can be identified both by rank and as SS by their collars outside the smock.

The use of shoulder boards, collar insignia and cufftitles was forbidden on camouflage uniforms by orders. Although you see the HBT dot pattern uniforms with various degrees of insignia, this was still against orders.

Both the Waffen-SS and Heer were to use the oakleaf and bar arm patches on all uniforms issued without shoulder straps. I still haven't found a photo of shoulder boards on a smock. I am fairly confident that someone will find one, but that will probably be the extreme exception to the rule.

I would shave off the shoulder boards.

PH

[awaygood]

I agree with Paul. While it is always possible that an individual may have fixed shoulder-straps to a camouflage smock, it would certainly be unusual; I've never seen a photograph showing this. The wearer's rank, if shown at all, would normally be indicated by bars, or a combination of bars and oakleaves, sewn on patches and worn above the elbow on each arm (a system used by both the Army and the Waffen-SS). I don't have my references to hand, but there was also a 'rank group' (ie: NCOs, junior officers, and so on), as opposed to specific ranks, system of arm badges used before the introduction of the system described above.

[charlie don't surf]

Sorry, Daniel, I have to disagree with "the insignia should be visible as required by standing orders. Even if rank insignia often wasn't shown this 'standing order' gives the motive to have shoulder boards on camo smocks." For example, with collar patch ranks, most W-SS men can be identified both by rank and as SS by their collars outside the smock.

But in that case rank insignia is visable, there are plenty of pictures of waffen ss soldiers who don't have any rank insignia visable under their smock, due to that they only have shirts or in some cases even nude under the smock. I believe these cases were against standing orders. These were the cases I talked about. That no men did have shoulder boards on their smocks is true but what I said was that this order motivates it, to some extent.

best regards/ daniel

[Paul Hanson]

Hi Daniel;

That's the kind of exception to which I am referring. They may be in shirt-sleeve order, or no shirt at all. But a day, or a week, later they are back in full uniform. They may be in conflict with orders but for such a short period that higher authority didn't care or probably never knew about it.

I think that for the overall picture shoulder boards on camouflage smocks was a non-existant condition.

Paul

[charlie don't surf]

I think that for the overall picture shoulder boards on camouflage smocks was a non-existant condition.

So do I.

regards