German Soldiers.......worst Movie portrayal.

Fiction, movies, alternate history, humor, and other non-research topics related to WWII.

Moderator: Commissar D, the Evil

Achilles
Contributor
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:33 am

Post by Achilles » Sun Aug 03, 2003 10:58 am

There is nothing fantasizing about attributing Germans with fighting harder than the Allies (probably equal to the British and Commonwealth). That was simply the impression that the commanders themselves recorded. The reasons for it? I'm not completely sure.
Granted the German Army as a WHOLE was more effective then the Allied when compared over 6 years of war. The main reason for this was small unit leadership and adaptability. However we are talking 1944-45 when the quality of German units varied hugely. This image of them all being better than their opponents is quite simply BS.

Whenever the Germans attacked they came off worse than Allied attacks - the Lorraine fighting and the destruction the Panzer Brigades in September 1944 illustrates this. The so-called past masters of armoured warfare were proved to be no such thing. Badly organised attacks, amateurish tactical errors, piece meal deployments lead to the complete destruction of some of the best equipped units on the Western Front at that time.
But one thing we can't dismiss is that despite knowledge of the impending loss the Germans managed to pull off quite a fight. I believe your accusations are unfounded considering you already admit to the fighting skill of the average American GI.
As previously discussed the Germans were for the most part defending and when they attacked they came off badly (Mortain, Caen, Lorraine, Ardennes). The Soviet army nearly always managed to put up 'quite a fight' when on the defensive. Do you think that they were better soldiers than the German counterparts becuase of this?

And the comparison with the US Army vs the British is not down to 'fighting skill'. It's down to a more professional attitude, experience and fitness. However if both armies ever had to expand greatly in size they would begin to converge in terms of 'fighting skill'.

User avatar
Firebomb Fritz
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 5:27 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada

band of brothers

Post by Firebomb Fritz » Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:58 pm

okay....it is very americanized....even more so then Private Ryan.

putting a M1911A on a window sill and spraying and praying against a bunch of Fallschirmjager, and killing htem all...the gun would jump all over the place. come on.

but they did portray some good germans fighting[/i]

Sebastian Pye
Enthusiast
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:32 am
Location: Sweden, Västerås
Contact:

Post by Sebastian Pye » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:40 am

If the germans were so crappy, how come the allies had those investigations about the german army after the war? How come they estimated the german soldier to be 20% better(or was it 25%) in 1944?
I also read somewhere that the allied casualties were overall 50% larger whether in attack or defence against the germans, and im not talking russians.

Achilles
Contributor
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:33 am

Post by Achilles » Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:52 am

Dear Scandinavian Warrior,

Please try reading as no one says the Germans are 'crappy'.

Please explain how a soldier (or in this case millions of soldiers) can be measured as being a percentage better than another.

'You read somewhere' - what fanatastic research methods you employ. You've totally convinced me. Seriously though
that the allied casualties were overall 50% larger whether in attack or defence against the germans, and im not talking russians.
A quick cursory glance at overall casualty figures tells me you are talking utter BS. A quick question - what do you think the casualty ratio is for the Eastern Front German to Soviet?

User avatar
spencer
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 7:30 am

worst

Post by spencer » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:14 am

In reality at the end of the day it all comes down to the individual and motivation, Elite or otherwise.
To it's credit BOB showed Yank paras hiding - murdering prisoners and being dumb on purpose, yet they are in general superb troops. Germans always get a raw deal on film - No American producer would touch a script based on It never snows in September, and have good excuses to hand for anything you can't hide such as the Elite Rangers episode in Anzio.
Be glad that your not British apparently they are all complete tea swilling simpletons in battle, Monty's useless and everthing they ever did failed. SPR mentions this numerous times, as did the BOB tankers episode, A Bridge to Far, well i'm surprised all the officers don't constantly trip over going through doors. As far as Hollywood would is concerned - make the target audience happy, i.e other Americans, who cares about Europeans.
This isn't a dig at Americans just Hollywoods policy on the subject.

As to the root of this thread, worst Germans in film would be Guns of Navarone

Pirx
Associate
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:46 am
Location: UK/Poland

Post by Pirx » Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:43 am

YOU ALL ARE HAPPY, COZ YOU DIDNT WATCH POLISH, SOVIET OR TCHECHOSLOVAKIAN MOVIES FROM 50'S OR 60'S.
The worst:
1. "Lotna" - Ulans with sabres vs. hundrets Tigers in september 1939, most stupid propaganda
2. "No one knows nothig" - stupid film, probably about war coz there are some guys in feldgrau.
3. "A story about true man" - Stalin in front line made some speach, and Iwan with Nikita, with bunch of graneds blow up tens of Tigers near Smolensk in 1941, and some others bulshits.
4. "Tank crew and the dog"- super tank T-34 vs. Panthers, Tigers, Fallshimjagers and even one U-boot. All Germans are idiots, and so on (propaganda).
"Allo allo" looks like documentary in this company

User avatar
karltrowitz
Supporter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:26 pm
Location: Hexham,U.K.

Post by karltrowitz » Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:23 pm

Hey, that's two of you that have slagged off "Allo Allo". It was a brilliant series. You must remember that it is a comedy series based on British ideas of German stereotypes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Leutnant Gruber and his "little tank"! The thing that annoys me is when movies etc portray the Germans like this and they are trying to make a serious movie.

Nobody has mentioned that single scene from "Highlander" where the hero saves the young French girl from the brutal German after the invasion of France.Can anyone explain to me why there is an SS guy in black dress uniform in the front line.Plus, naturally for any German soldier, his main aim is to kill kids! Very realistic.

User avatar
marius
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:51 am

Post by marius » Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:35 am

Yeah I remember that scene. Awfully stupid....
So much so that I didnt even bother to get irritated. Now, Band of Brothers
and Private Ryan did irritate me, especially since they both are heavily celebrated for being realistic. If you ask me, its the war according to Spielberg. Nice action sequences and superb scenography, but the germans really came off as asses... :?
I really wonder what that new super expensive series they`re making with Lucas will be like. No doubt we will be seeing Indiana Jones style nazigermans... I fear it will be worse than pearl harbour! (which don`t include germans, i know. But what an expensive pile of inaccurate and utter rubbish...)


Cheers

Marius, the cinematik Jarlsberg

User avatar
Dackelstaffel
Contributor
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:29 pm

Post by Dackelstaffel » Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:18 am

Sure, only the 20 first minutes of Saving Private Ryan can be qualified as realistic. But, don't forget that movie needs historic shortcuts to be understood by the people. Only a few are aware as you of how was the Wehrmacht. One thing bother me in the Spielberg's movie. At Omaha Beach, nearly all the germans had the hair shaved or very short cut. I saw a lot of picture of, even Waffen SS, german soldiers with a normal haircut. Maybe the scriptwriter wanted to show germans like skinheads. An another thing too, In the movie all the germans seemed to be mature men but I've seen on internet pictures of the 915 Infanterie Regiment of the 352 Infanterie division and I was surprised to learn that a lot of soldiers were very young, about 16/17 years old. The 352 Infantrie Division was created in october 1943 with the remains of 268 and 321 Infanterie Division and men born in 1926/1927.

User avatar
behblc
Associate
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:21 pm
Location: UK.

"Allo , Allo"

Post by behblc » Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:11 pm

Karlowitz is 100% spot on "Allo , Allo" was first rate , like "Dad's Army" before it....each took the mickey 100% no-one got off lightly.
Captain Bertorelli more medals than Goring ,
Rene hen pecked serial womaniser.... "Crush me in your arms Rene...."
The "Policeman" ...the "Airmen" ...total leg pull.
Herr "Otto" Flick (Himmlers nephew) crazy guy probably runs a MacDonalds now.

Not a bad take on the German Army....they took the mickey out of everyone.

The U-Boat crew in Dad's Army......"Mainwaring" will never , ever date.
" Life , to be sure is nothing much to loose ; But young men think it is , and we were young . "
A.E. Housman.

" The old lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori. " Wilfred Owen (M.C.).

User avatar
Helmut
Patron
Posts: 1094
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 3:12 pm
Location: Clarksville, TN

Post by Helmut » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:45 am

Servus,
For those of you who didn't like SPR this should really p**s you off. At Ft Campbell KY, home of the 101st Airborne Div ( Air Assault) all the NCOs and Officers were required to go to a mandatory showing of the movie at the post theater as a study in leadership.

Regards,

User avatar
Sam Moniac
New Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:16 pm

Post by Sam Moniac » Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:42 am

Kelly's Heroes is the most realistic WW2 film ever made.

User avatar
karltrowitz
Supporter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:26 pm
Location: Hexham,U.K.

Post by karltrowitz » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:40 am

Kelly's heroes realistic??? :? :? :?

Sam, you must be taking the p**s! :D :D

User avatar
Edelweiss.
Supporter
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: UK

Post by Edelweiss. » Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:00 pm

The worst movie portrayal of German combatants? From my own viewing, my nomination would most definately be U-571. It is the epitomy of all that is weak, inaccurate and insulting about the propaganda reels that emerge from historically inept Hollywood works. It's only notable achievement was to tick off both the British and the Germans in the same film!

Regards,
Edelweiss

User avatar
WMDGreen
Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 4:29 am
Location: North East England

German Soldiers ... Worst Movie portayal

Post by WMDGreen » Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:13 am

Dear all

Currently showing on British TV is a series called 'P.O.W.', it hasn't finished yet I know, but it's hard to watch, stereotyped characters on both sides.

The obligatory cheeky/chirpy cockney soldier, provincial hardnuts and stiff upper lipped British officer.

The Germans are depicted as either sadistic or idiots.

Spare me please!, yes there would have been some, but I know from family and friends that this was not always thus.

War does not necessarily enoble the human condition, but I'll spare you any further philosophy.
It's very confusing here, north of the Hadrian Line, are we under siege?, or are we to attack?! ...

Post Reply