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Moderator: Commissar D, the Evil
They do. Once. On Stalin's dacha. Stalin, is vaporized. Along with Zhukov and Konev. The East Front in this TL has been nothing but a disaster for the Russians. Stalingrad was relived, Manstein bled the Reds white, the attack on Army Group Center and South were routed totaly. Not to say the Germans are close to victory, but the Red Army is even more exhausted than in our time line (OTL) Combined with the death of Stalin, this forces the Red Army into a breif civl war with the NKVD over leadership. Becker makes peace under those circumstances.phylo_roadking wrote:Removing the Nazis from power wouldn't matter at all - the beliefs of the Nazi party would be all through any possible successor government, though it would probably be the Army. Except the German Army couldn't bluff or play poker to save their lives IF they were sitting on top of a secret like that, they'd USE the bomb - on the EASTERN Front...
Ah, but the Allies did try that. Like in Japan they bypassed the capital (to leave someone alive to surrender) and tried to nuke Dresden. This bomber was shot down, and it's nuke recovered (the crew sabotaged the nuke to save their own skin so it didn't go off as they crahsh landed. The one nuke is an American one.phylo_roadking wrote: ...and say, hey look at what WE can do! Let's be friends. ANY possible treaty after any Armistice would take a number of months to negotiate - and the Americans and British would be negotiating from a position of nodding and winking and KNOWING about Manhattan....
ANY treaty negotiation would be torn up and begin AGAIN on July 16th, after Alamagordo....
Or just fall into abeyance until the SECOND Atomic Sun rises - this time over Berlin. After which the SURVIVING German government members would be shown Oak Ridge and Hanford - and it would be back to Unconditional Surrender.
The Americans were already intent on using nukes on Japan. Nothing except a Jap bomb would have detered them.phylo_roadking wrote: it would mean a VERY different map after a final settlement- Germany would be geographically divided into exactly the three (later four) Zones agreed at various Bug Four conferences, and there would be a WHOLE extra set of defendants at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials, this time including first and unprovoked use of the Atomic Bomb against the Russians.
In this world Hitler starts the atomic program in 1939, on the advice of Wilhelm Becker who views such a weapon as an insurance policy too good to pass up even if it turns out to be impossible in reality.phylo_roadking wrote: P.S. Heisenberg is out of the equation by September 1941. Although he confirmed to Nils Bohr that he was working on a uranium weapon at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for the Heerswaffenampt, the scant technical details he passed over convinced Bohr that he didn't have the first clue about building a bomb. He spent the rest of the war trying to design up a stable nuclear reaction. A MUCH more pratical approach was Kurt Deibner's attempts to construct an enrichened Uranium device, also for the Heerswaffenampt, but THIS also stalled due to a lack of resources - including the uranium! LOL
phylo_roadking wrote: SO if you're looking at a Europe with Germany intact after a forced nuclear peace - roll the map back towards 1941-42....by April 1945 it would be ALL bluff.
No they weren't. In real life the Atom Bomb was ONLY for use against Nazi Germany. Except by the last 18 months of the war - once it became obvious how LONG development would take (there were several MAJOR holdups in relatime) it had become obvious to all that Germany would be defeated without it. Unfortunately by THEN, the really major and high-casualty operations in the Pacific, eventually finishing with Okinawa, showed the Americans that they could expect casualties of anything from ONE MILLION to ONE and a HALF million in invading the Home Islands...but they had the ultimate forcing-surrender weapon on the horizon.it would mean a VERY different map after a final settlement- Germany would be geographically divided into exactly the three (later four) Zones agreed at various Big Four conferences, and there would be a WHOLE extra set of defendants at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials, this time including first and unprovoked use of the Atomic Bomb against the Russians.
The Americans were already intent on using nukes on Japan. Nothing except a Jap bomb would have detered them.
The German Army or any other successor government would not use their one bomb on that sort of a target. A military government wouldnt even think of it. They'd use it as an umbrella to cover an offensive somewhere, draw the rump Red Army into a narrow location somewhere...THEN use it! The Germans never considered ANY of their weapons as a forced-surrender weapon - even the V-weapons were expected to have to do all their damage first before the British would negotiate. THIS is what the Blitz taught them.They do. Once. On Stalin's dacha. Stalin, is vaporized. Along with Zhukov and Konev
ALL the nations' atomic programmes started in 1939/40 or earlier, after that damn scientific journal article LOL. Whether programmes to build one or to stop the other guy building one. In America it was a group of scientists who had done preliminary theoretical work on this themselves who went to FDR.In this world Hitler starts the atomic program in 1939