working as a P.O.W. or "political prisoner'

Fiction, movies, alternate history, humor, and other non-research topics related to WWII.

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sid guttridge
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Post by sid guttridge » Tue May 22, 2007 9:32 pm

Hi panzerschrck,

There is no doubt that the German Army fought extremely hard on the Eastern Front in 1945, especially to cover the evacuation of civilians.

However, one has to wonder how much this was due to propaganda-induced hysteria about Soviet captivity and how much to the reality of it. The Nazis had led the German people to believe that they faced literal annihilation by the Bolshevik hordes, but this was not, in fact, the case. Bad as Soviet rule was, it wsas nowhere near as bad a Nazi propaganda promoted.

Again, if one looks at Overmans, once a POW's captivity had been acepted and registered, death rates were not extraordinarily high, especially for those taken at the end of the war. (I think it was about 10%, but this requires checking, so don't quote me yet!).

In fact more uniformed Germans surrendered to the British than to either the USA or USSR. However, these (and a large proportion of those taken by the USA) were often because most Germans on the Eastern Front surrendered to the Western Allies. The Ostheer, in the main, chose to surrender in the end.

It is true that there was less motivation for the Germans to fight the Western Allies than the Red Army. That was one reason why the Germanic Waffen-SS was more committed against the Western Allies in 1944 than against the Red Army and why the Waffen-SS as a whole had suffered a higher proportion of its fatalities against the Western Allies than the German Army had by the end of 1944. (Conversely, and much against the stereotype of its anti-Communist popular image, the Waffen-SS suffered a lower proportion of its losses against the Red Army than the German Army did!).

Cheers,

Sid.

Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating » Wed May 23, 2007 6:27 am

sid guttridge wrote:The Nazis had led the German people to believe that they faced literal annihilation by the Bolshevik hordes, but this was not, in fact, the case. Bad as Soviet rule was, it wsas nowhere near as bad a Nazi propaganda promoted.
Just because your nemeses were banned, Sid, it does not follow that you and your mates will be allowed to promote pro-Soviet revisionism on this website without being challenged! LOL!

Soviet rule was as bad as the experience of those who suffered under it shows. The Red Army raped and pillaged their way across Europe with carte blanche. The only other army to do this during WW2, in the ETO, was the French Army and even then, it was a localised practice sanctioned by a particularly rabid general pandering to his Arab troops.

Given the human rights record of the Stalinist regime in the 1930s, the Nazi government had little trouble promoting this fear of "the Bolshevik hordes". People in the West knew what the Soviets were like. That's why so many young Westerners volunteered to fight on the Eastern Front. I'm not promoting a pro-Nazi view here. The Nazis played on widespread fear of the Bolschevik hordes, a fear that was entirely justified.

Ask anyone who experienced "liberation" by the Red Army and wasn't a card-carrying Communist. Not that this guaranteed you any protection!

PK

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Post by panzermahn » Wed May 23, 2007 6:34 am

Ask anyone who experienced "liberation" by the Red Army and wasn't a card-carrying Communist. Not that this guaranteed you any protection!
Even being a foreign Bolshevik or card-carrying Communist doesnt necessarily protects from the Bolsheviks.

Cornelius Ryan's book The Last Battle mentioned that a female German bolshevik who was on Gestapo wanted list during the Third Reich, appear to the Soviets when they reach the town that she was hiding. And her reward for being so loyal a Bolshevik?

Gang-rape by Soviet troops.

Regards
Panzermahn

phylo_roadking
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Post by phylo_roadking » Wed May 23, 2007 8:07 am

Sid, the death rate figures for German POWs in Russian captivity from the war's end forward were published in "another" thread - as high as 38-9%.
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds

sid guttridge
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Post by sid guttridge » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:12 am

Hi Phylo,

Overmanns gives significantly lower figures.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Dackel Staffel
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Post by Dackel Staffel » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:12 pm

Paddy Keating wrote:The only other army to do this during WW2, in the ETO, was the French Army and even then, it was a localised practice sanctioned by a particularly rabid general pandering to his Arab troops.

PK
Not arab but moroccan troops. The town was Freudenstadt. Friendship town ! Not at this time.

Historical anecdocte : De Castries and Navarre were involved in the fall of this city. 9 years later, they were also involved in an another fall : the one of Dien Bien Phu. And this time, 11 000 men surrendered only 3 000 survived at 3 months of captivity. Colonel Bigeard said that only one banana per day should have allowed for mostly of the soldiers to survive.

So long.
All we need it's a Dackel in each pocket

Reb
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Post by Reb » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:38 pm

Hi Dackel

Bigeard is supposed to have been the only guy to come out of a commie camp phylically fit. Story goes that they found it quite irritating but he was already on a macrobiotic diet!

A tough hombre! :D

cheers
Reb

sid guttridge
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Post by sid guttridge » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:27 am

Hi Reb,

Apparently freed US prisoners from the Vietnam War have a significantly higher life expectancy than those not captured. This is put down to the limited rice-based diet they had, while their uncaptured peers were stuffing their faces with pizza, alcohol and drugs.

Anyone for the Ho Chi Minh Lifestyle Plan and Vegetarian Diet?

Cheers,

Sid,

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Dackel Staffel
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Post by Dackel Staffel » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:49 pm

Hi Reb,

I guess for Bigeard, the real liberation was for his guards. :D

So long.
All we need it's a Dackel in each pocket

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Post by Annelie » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:15 pm

Sid I remember also reading that somewhere at sometime
Apparently freed US prisoners from the Vietnam War have a significantly higher life expectancy than those not captured
but since read that "this is not true." FYI the average life expectancy
of an Vietnam Vet is/was 56 years old. I doubt there would be
much difference between those captured or not? It would depend
I think on circumstances on whether or not they were exposed to
chemical agents etc?
Annelie
________________________

sid guttridge
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Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:54 am

Post by sid guttridge » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:09 am

Hi Annelie,

I will have to dig out the original source.

This was a medical study done a decade or so ago.

I will get back to you.

Cheers,

Sid.

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