Historical Perspectives in the New Europe

pzrmeyer2 · Post by **pzrmeyer2** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:47 pm

I'm sure you come from a long line of Carolina KKK nuts who's been hard at work on racial prejudice since before they'd heard of soap, so that must count as an extenuating circumstance in your case.

Thats a good one. I just moved here--another Yankee carpetbagger from New York.

When someone with agitprop oozing out of their ears starts talking about "lockstep opinions" and "sanitized versions", it's always a treat.

really, tell me what agitprop have I offered up in this thread? what lockstep opinions have I offered?
you cant answer the question about Irving so you get angry and throw out the usual "anti Semite bullshit. . next you'll proably blame themoderators or say the forum is going to sh1t. Not used to someone offering up opinions that deviate from the template, are you? Come up with a rational arguement for once that isn't clouded by your PC prism.

Qvist · Post by **Qvist** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:23 pm

Thats a good one. I just moved here--another Yankee carpetbagger from New York.

So you lack that particular excuse then.

really, tell me what agitprop have I offered up in this thread? what lockstep opinions have I offered?

You mean apart from implying that jews are the scum of the earth, that Irving has found a rational basis for anti-semitism and glorification of Hitler, that everyone is spoonfed BS by the holocaust industry, that neo-nazis are the innocent victims of persecution and champions of free speech, that those who take umbrage at blatant racism are just motivated by PC, portraying support of a totalitarian dictatorship as freedom and the opposition to it as totalitarian, and that the world is divided into those who like Hitler and those who are afraid of the truth? And Lockstep - let's see. Racist, but don't say so directly, check. Attributing conspiracy basis to the opposing view, check. Attributing quest for truth and courage of opinion to those who share ideology, check. Attributing motives of obfuscation and/or mindless conformism to those who don't, check. Closed circuit reasoning, check. Circular self-justification from assuming that the more pepper you get for your views, the truer they must be, check. Full marks all around.

Give me a break. I've been around forums for what approaches a decade, and I've seen your type more often than I care to remember. As an A4 crypto-denier and far right prophead you're as standard as they come, though I've seen cleverer.

you cant answer the question about Irving so you get angry and throw out the usual "anti Semite bullshit. .

Well, you've defined yourself as an anti-semite, and yes, anti-semitism does make me angry. And it's not my problem if you don't understand that your question about Irving has been answered.

next you'll proably blame themoderators or say the forum is going to sh1t.

Now that you mention it, I for one wouldn't mind seeing this dunghill of a thread closed. Not my call though.

Not used to someone offering up opinions that deviate from the template, are you? Come up with a rational arguement for once that isn't clouded by your PC prism.

Ah right, thank you, that was the only one that was missing I think. The "you're just having problems with an opposing view" bit.

Rajin Cajun · Post by **Rajin Cajun** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:42 pm

Qvist....Jews were considered scum of the Earth long before Hitler and Pals...Martin Luther anyone? So why don't you start arguing about how Christianity should be destroyed. I know you were just waiting for the opening so go on ahead. If there is a more anti-Semitic organization its Christianity they blame a group of people for killing a Holy Figure and it says in the Bible they shall be cursed until they accept said figure.

I don't see what your problem is with the KKK unless your just ignorant...it did start out as a Confederate Calvary Fraternity so if anyone had distant relatives in it then it wasn't exactly a bad thing...even after that it remained a Christian Fraternity for a bit it wasn't till rather recent history that it became a Racially Motivated Organization but again your a European Socialist you can't look outside of the box.

Cheers,
RC

Qvist · Post by **Qvist** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:54 pm

1. I've never voted anything to the left of conservative and never will

2. You don't see what my problem with the KKK is?! You don't have a problem with the KKK?

3. Yes, the church, like Europe generally, sadly has anti-semitic aspects to its history. The point here being what exactly?

Rajin Cajun · Post by **Rajin Cajun** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:01 pm

No I don't see a problem with the KKK because I know the full history of it. I would not consider the KKK of today the same as the KKK after the Civil War. The KKK today is nothing more then Neo-Nazis in sheets.

Of course your missing the point. You are so willing to act like Antisemitism is horrid or that its the ultimate sin. When in fact Christians can point to the Bible endorsing Antisemitism by saying the Jews must suffer for their crimes which God himself said. Of course if your a Christian as you say then I don't personally see how you can sympathize with the people. They are just reaping what they have sown and they should be thankful to the Lord if they only have one Holocaust. My point is though you are ideologically driven to assault the antisemitism of Irving but as a Christian not address the fact that Christianity is natural Antisemitic.

Qvist · Post by **Qvist** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:14 pm

Of course your missing the point. You are so willing to act like Antisemitism is horrid

Let me be very clear about this. It is horrid - as well as reprehensible, indefensible, inexcusable and repugnant. It is incompatible with basic decency. That is the point. If you think that is disrespectful to anti-semites, you are entirely correct - my respect for them is non-existent.

No I don't see a problem with the KKK because I know the full history of it. I would not consider the KKK of today the same as the KKK after the Civil War. The KKK today is nothing more then Neo-Nazis in sheets.

And I see a problem with the KKK because they are nothing more than neo-nazis in sheets.

My point is though you are ideologically driven to assault the antisemitism of Irving but as a Christian not address the fact that Christianity is natural Antisemitic.

My, you are making a lot of assumptions aren't you. I am not a christian. Those of my countrymen who are christians are practically to a man staunch and uncompromising pro-israelis. At least where I'm coming from, the link between christianity and anti-semitism today is non-existent - indeed, there is on the contrary a clear link between christian fundamentalism and philosemitism.

Rajin Cajun · Post by **Rajin Cajun** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:38 pm

No your talking about Judeo-Christianity which has taken over mainstream Christianity.

Again your idiocy is a given the KKK of today is not the KKK of the past which I support.

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:34 am

Hi RC,

Are you suggesting that anti-Semitism is integral to and inseperable from Christianity? That Christianity cannot function outside a framework of racial and religious hatred of Jews? That this racial and religious hatred is sanctioned by God?

If you are, then yes, the morality, utility and future of Christianity is very much in question.

However, although not religious myself, I don't happen to see Christianity in that light. I am a little more charitable towards Christians than you would appear to be.

The only Christians who could possibly view their religion like that are a minority of those who take their Bible literally as the word of God in exactly the same way as Islamic extremists take the Koran. Don't we have enough problems with the latter already without letting our own home-grown fundamentalist lunatics loose?

Cheers,

Sid.

Qvist · Post by **Qvist** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:30 am

No your talking about Judeo-Christianity which has taken over mainstream Christianity.

"Judeo-Christianity"? Don't tell me, that'd be christianity which isn't anti-semitic, and hence has, in your eyes, ceased to be real christianity?

Again your idiocy is a given the KKK of today is not the KKK of the past which I support.

Oh, right. You don't have a problem with the KKK being nazis now because you think they were something different 120 years ago. That really makes sense.

Now, how about closing this freakshow, or do we need to just keep on arguing?

Paulus II · Post by **Paulus II** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:06 am

Stop the freakshow!!

This kind of debate (as in: shoutingmatch) is harmful to a website and forum that professes to be a place for serious research of the German Armed Forces of WW II.
Get back to the core-business of the forum and forget about debating modern politics based on various political agenda's.
Only opinions (and certainly not the nicest of them!) are all that is posted here.

This kind of thread (by now all the most active threads in Soldatenheim) severely detract from the value of Feldgrau and are a deterrent for potential new members that ARE interested in the Wehrmacht.

Qvist · Post by **Qvist** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:23 am

I agree. This thread started from the premise of an Irving rant, and has been a dog's breakfast from the beginning. If it's ok to use the forum for far-right preaching and expressions of racial hatred, it will draw responses of the kind I've made. Once that is out in the open, there is no common ground. If our brownie friends are content to keep their ideology to themselves, everyone would be happy to leave them in peace.

Tom Houlihan · Post by **Tom Houlihan** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:01 am

Obviously, there is a lot of emotion in this argument, as well as all the connected thought processes.

Perhaps it should be mandatory to read the "debate" thread before being allowed into these discussions.

I did find the thread interesting, myself, but we probably should have shut it off sooner.