Historical Perspectives in the New Europe

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Paddy Keating

Historical Perspectives in the New Europe

Post by Paddy Keating »

Here are some interesting comments in a blog on 7.4.2007 by the controversial historian, Dr David Irving, who served time as a political prisoner in Austrian jails.
The German Government has quietly admitted that over the last twelve months it prosecuted over 18,000 Germans for offences of "right-wing extremism," of which only a few hundred involved actual violence: i.e. they prosecuted over seventeen thousand thought-crimes -- people unwitting displaying the old swastika emblem, or even worse, National Socialist ideas, and perhaps even "denying the H."

As the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung recently pointed out in a courageous editorial, most of these new criminal records have been sprung on ordinary citizens blissfully unaware of the criminality of their actions and thoughts, because the tame German media are too cowardly to report any of these cases -- even the major trials like those involving the revisionists Ernst Zündel and Germar Rudolf.
Worrying stuff! It gets worse.
These absurd laws themselves are protected by fresh layers of other, even more absurd, laws making it impossible even for court-appointed attorneys to provide an adequate and conscientious defence to those accused under the thought-crime laws. Any German or Austrian lawyer who does, can be -- and frequently is -- himself ordered arrested by the judge, for having associated himself with these criminal thoughts and deeds. Zündel's court-appointed defence attorney Sylvia Stolz (right) made herself unpopular with the prosecutor for "hampering the prosecution," and is now to be prosecuted for so hampering. Go figure, as the Americans say.
Americans aren't as vulnerable as Europeans to this sort of repression, despite the claims of excessive Zionist power in the US. Just goes to illustrate the benefits to The People of a clearly written constitution! Irving continues.
More than once my chosen Austrian lawyer, Dr Herbert Schaller, left, arrived in the Vienna prison with fresh horror tales from Zündel's Mannheim courtroom -- the judge Meinertzhagen had warned him that if he asked certain questions of the court, or made certain defence motions, he too would be arrested.
The true face of democracy in The New Europe! This is like accounts of Church trials for heresy under The Inquisition!
I remember that in January 1993, when I was tried in Munich under Germany's laws for the suppression of free speech, one of my three lawyers turned up apologetically on the morning of the hearing apologizing that he could not continue to act for me, as the Munich Bar Association had threatened him with dismissal -- i.e. the end of his career -- if he did. He showed me their actual letter. I was fined thirty thousand deutschmarks, around twenty thousand dollars, for uttering a single sentence which the Polish authorities now belatedly admit was true.
One wonders what the people running the BDR could be so afraid of. Why are they so terrified of free and open discussion of National Socialism? Wasn't National Socialism thoroughly defeated and discredited some six decades ago?
I NOTICED when I was in Viennese prison that the jailhouse, built to hold eight hundred malfeasors, currently held 1,400 inmates, a quarter of them Blacks. It was a tight fit but it was possible, provided we did not all breathe at the same time.
Overcrowding in jails is not confined to Ostmark...sorry...Austria. It's a Europe-wide problem. I wonder how long it will be before our rulers in the new USSR-style EU announce that they are embarking upon a camp-building programme in order to save taxpayers' money as new bricks-and-mortar jails to house Europe's swelling prison population would be too expensive... Remember, everything the EU proposes is for the common good!
This morning I have received a letter from Frau K., an elderly Viennese lady in her nineties. Exercising what is the constitutional right of every citizen in most other countries, on September 27 of last year she had written a personal letter to the President of Austria, one Herbert Fischer -- a small, straw-haired gentleman of even smaller character and endowed with all the intellect and bearing of Lady Chatterley's gardener -- to protest against my arrest, trial, and imprisonment. "What D. I. said was right," she wrote in one passage of this incriminating letter.
Irving perhaps misses the point where the Austrian President is concerned. The people running Europe, by which I mean those really running the show, don't want statesmen. They want obedient drones although they will accept flamboyant personalities as long as they are prepared to implement the moneybags' agenda. Look at Angela Merkel, whom I call Frau Laundromat: little dumpy grey thing, who grew up in Communist East Germany. She will obey orders! Look at Nicholas Sarkozy, fondly known here as Sarcoma: flamboyant but obedient to the elders, like all good Jewish kids. I have not met anyone who admits to intending to vote for Sarcoma but the media reckons he will be the next President of France. Go figure...
She received no presidential reply? Right. -- She heard no more? Wrong.

On March 8 the Austrian criminal authorities sent her a letter fining her the sum of 200 euros under penalty of jail for having written these seditious words to their august president. No trial, no hearing, no defence -- no lawyer would have dared to defend her anyway.

This is the new Europe, coming soon to a jailhouse near us. I for one shall do my damndest to prevent it.
Coming soon? Dr Irving has to be kidding! It's already here! We sat on our hands and let it happen. While all the nationalists and extreme rightwingers were lurching drunkenly around, bullying ethnic minorities and clinging onto their tragically outmoded racist attitudes like drowning men, the real enemy has been busily building a post-Soviet version of the USSR, using the European Union as its framework, willingly assisted by the Bolsheviks and assorted Reds, Greens and other malcontents we dimly recall from domestic politics in various European countries in the 1970s and 1980s, who flocked to Brussels and Strasbourg after the collapse of their spiritual Alma Mater at the end of the 1980s.

I suppose some of you think I'm being a bit extreme? The acceptance of truth comes in three stages:

Ridicule

Violent Opposition

Acceptance

If we are to save Europe, we need to change our way of thinking quite radically. We need to drop the racism from the programme. The divides are not along racial lines. Europeans come in all colours. The divides are cultural and, to some extent, religious. That said, religion needn't be a divisive force in a proud, healthy society. Look at Kurdistan or, at any rate, that part of Iraq increasingly known as Kurdistan. Look at the United States. It's not perfect but religious sectarianism wasn't a major problem there the last time I looked. Why? Because the inhabitants of the US are by default Americans first and foremost. It's a shame that we Europeans forgot to import that part of US culture along with Coca-Cola and Mickey Mouse.

PK
Last edited by Paddy Keating on Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan »

I've not paid too much attention to Irving and his travails, but
for uttering a single sentence which the Polish authorities now belatedly admit was true.
What is he referring to here? What did he allege that the Poles have now agreed to? Does he have any recourse to an appeal?
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Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating »

There might be something here about it: http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/Global/Vendetta.html No matter what one thinks of Irving and his aims, the salient question arising from what amounts to his persecution for trying to express his opinions must be: what are they so scared of? What has been done to Irving in various jurisdictions raises troubling questions about freedom of speech and expression in Europe and some other allegedly democratic places, like Canada. One cannot help wondering when they will try to deploy War on Terror-related legislation against Dr Irving. They are already deploying these laws against people who have criticised government in Britain.

PK
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Post by Annelie »

No matter what one thinks of Irving and his aims, the salient question arising from what amounts to his persecution for trying to express his opinions must be: what are they so scared of? What has been done to Irving in various jurisdictions raises troubling questions about freedom of speech and expression in Europe and some other allegedly democratic places, like Canada.
What are they scared of? How about those that attend to hear what
he might say even if they might not agree to his views?

One attending in the past one of his meetings
out of interest can also bear consquences.

I remember some years ago that he would be in an area that I could
attend to listen out of curiosity. I didn't attend as I heard that anyone
attending would be noticed and recorded I suppose and listed as a supporter.
It was also known that if one was a supporter of Irving that
Germany could refuse entry to such people.
Since travelling is important to me it was an easy decision to make.



There is on You Tube several interviews of Mr. Irving if one
should be interested.
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Post by pzrmeyer2 »

what are they so scared of?
rhetorcial, obviously, but my guess is something about the old adage of "the truth will set you free". which is exactly what our Chosen Leaders don't want.
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Post by Rajin Cajun »

Annelie,

Don't you find something odd with that? You can't attend a meeting no matter what you think of the subject material because you will be labeled as a thought criminal? I've raised questions before about certain aspects of the Holocaust not because I don't believe it happened but because some stories don't add up. As I'm sure Tom could tell you eyewitness testimony is not always correct nor does it bring out the truth not because the said victim lied but because under duress people tend to remember things incorrectly.

I personally see nothing wrong with historical investigations of the Holocaust if they are done correctly. What I am disturbed about is one is not allowed to investigate at all.
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Re: Historical Perspectives in the New Europe

Post by Marc Binazzi »

Paddy Keating wrote: Look at Nicholas Sarkozy, fondly known here as Sarcoma: flamboyant but obedient to the elders, like all good Jewish kids. I have not met anyone who admits to intending to vote for Sarcoma but the media reckons he will be the next President of France. Go figure...

PK


Known "here"? Where? Never heard that nickname before. And also just to satisfy my curiosity where have you been so desperately looking for people eager to vote for that Hungarian scumbag ? (oops, sorry...)
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Post by phylo_roadking »

Paddy, take a look to at some of the new work done on the court cases after the Beerhall Putsch, including AH's own trial and imprisonment. The Munich court and State Prosecutor was remarkably lenient on all involved where possible....but then take a look at the penalties levied on card-carrying Communists and trade unionists in the Weimar Republic at the same time....

ALL that those 18,000 prosecutions a year is doing is creating another 18,000 disgruntled citizens every year, and their families, and their friends. Sooner or later you CAN'T keep pissing off your citizens like that, no matter why you're doing it. Somewhere along the line the law HAS to react to public opinion....or the public arrive at the courtroom doors with the proverbial pitchforks and torches.

We've had Blackshirts, Brownshirts, Redshirts and Blueshirts. I wonder what colour the backlash will wear this season?
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Post by krichter33 »

Excellent post Paddy! 1984 is coming on faster than I thought. About Irving's statement that got him in trouble: In 1993 he was charged for saying that the Gas Chambers that were being shown to tourists in Auschwitz were fakes, built after the war, since the originals were in ruin. He was prosecuted and fined for that statement. Yet, a few years later the Polish authorities admitted that the Chambers they show tourists were built, I believe, in 1948, and were not original. So Irving was right, but of course, he can't appeal.
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Post by phylo_roadking »

but of course, he can't appeal
why not?
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
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Post by krichter33 »

They wouldn't allow any evidence that speaks to the contrary. Because EVERYONE knows that those are real chambers, thus since it is common knowledge it is true, and any evidence speaking to the contrary, even the testimony of the Polish authorities, must be false. That's what the court would say.
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Paddy Keating

Re: Historical Perspectives in the New Europe

Post by Paddy Keating »

Marc Binazzi wrote:
Paddy Keating wrote: Look at Nicholas Sarkozy, fondly known here as Sarcoma: flamboyant but obedient to the elders, like all good Jewish kids. I have not met anyone who admits to intending to vote for Sarcoma but the media reckons he will be the next President of France. Go figure...

PK


Known "here"? Where? Never heard that nickname before. And also just to satisfy my curiosity where have you been so desperately looking for people eager to vote for that Hungarian scumbag ? (oops, sorry...)
"Here" is Paris. Maybe we move in different circles, Marc. I first heard it from a fashion queen and have been hearing it more and more recently. I am doing my bit to spread it too! I wouldn't say that I am desperate to find people eager for vote for Papa Delta - as he has been called in The British Legion :wink: - but I was merely remarking that I cannot recall meeting anyone prepared publicly to admit to intending to vote for him. I know many who say they will vote for Le Pen and almost as many who are for Bayrou. A few women I know will vote for Royal because she's female, which is a really lame motive, IMO! A DST numbers cruncher suggested that 38% of voters are thinking of Le Pen whilst the pollsters who were alone in predicting Le Pen's result in the first round last time opine that it will end up as a contest between Sarkozy and Le Pen.

I have already moved money and assets out of France...

PK
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Post by Tom Houlihan »

Paddy, I read that article you posted, finally. I've never really followed Irving's career, but I think it's time I did so. If merely half of what I read is true, then I need to learn more about the man and what he's doing, rather than pay any attention to the "conventional wisdom" about him.

I would think that if those parties that oppose him are so sure of themselves, they'd encourage debate so as to debunk his stories, and condemn him to the dustbin. Methinks something's amiss!
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Post by Paddy Keating »

Irving is a difficult subject, Tom. Most informed observers accept that he is essentially a brilliant historian and a very accomplished writer. Leaving aside the hysterical and histrionic reactions to Irving's various remarks about the "H" in order to focus upon less dramatic reactions, Irving has certainly raised questions that needed to be raised.

He was always going to attract flak for this but one gets the impression from some of his reactions over the years that he underestimated the power and resources of the forces arrayed against him. One also feels that he placed too much importance upon the plaudits he received from beerhalls full of overweight, sweaty-lipped German neo-nazis and others of a similar ilk and did not perhaps realise that these Horst Wessel-singing blowhards declined to follow him as he charged the enemy!

Dr Irving has more in the common with the early National Socialists than many of the people who get vicarious thrills from the fury Irving's statements provoke. Irving is a courageous man. Even those with whom he has fought in court, like Deborah Lippstadt, opined that Irving should not have been jailed by the Austrians.

Irving has been accused of anti-semitism and he may well be an anti-semite but when Jews who criticise his statements then criticise the persecution of Irving, I think we can safely conclude that something is seriously wrong with the ways things are being run in the countries in question. In other words, there is no genuine freedom of speech in Europe and Irving renders us all a valuable service by illustrating this unpalatable fact.

Remember, the establishment of Truth traverses three stages:

Ridicule

Violent opposition

Acceptance

Irving has never questioned the "H" itself. He has merely questioned the figures and some of the facts. There are Jewish scholars whose questions mirror those of Irving. They have been castigated as "self-hating Jews" by the H-Industry.

I remember being in Northern Albania and Kosova in May 1999. Tens of thousands of Kosovans were reported missing, believed exterminated. I saw plenty of evidence of Serbian atrocities against Kosovan citizens. But after much painstaking work, various agencies, including those with no love for the Milosovich regime, now estimate the figure as 2,000 or less. It does not mitigate or reduce the horror of what was done by Serbs and their Russian mercenaries. But 2,000 is a far cry from the 20,000 claimed at the height of events.

I daresay that we shall see the day when H figures are revised to reflect the realities of what the Germans and their willing allies were able to achieve in the comparitively limited time available to them. It will not take away from the utter horror of the crime. The problem is a cultural one in that the starting price, so to speak, must be outlandishly high before one arrives at a reasonable figure after much haggling. Mind you, when you haggle the price of a carpet down, you don't end up on government sh1tlists as a general rule but I think the analogy holds up.

PK
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Post by Qvist »

Well, perhaps one ought to consider the possibility that events may not in fact have happened in the way that Irving describes them.

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