Re-enactment...why??
Moderator: Commissar D, the Evil
-
phylo_roadking
- Patron
- Posts: 8459
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:41 pm
As Woody Allen once saidRajin Cajun wrote:I like Manowar myself as well the point is they tend to take the Manowar fan mentality as the same as a Waffen-SS or Wehrmacht member. Last I checked they weren't suicidal nor did they have some Viking-esque bloodlust.
When I listen to manowar it makes me wanna get out my longship and conquer England.I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
-
Rajin Cajun
- Banned
- Posts: 659
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:02 pm
- Location: Utah, United States
reenactment
Nice photos; indeed decent portrayal. No FARB in sight. Bravo !
However . . . . . .Unterscharführers did not lug an MG, while there was a Sturmmann nearby, who was not carrying anything.
:-)
HN
However . . . . . .Unterscharführers did not lug an MG, while there was a Sturmmann nearby, who was not carrying anything.
:-)HN
joined forum early spring of 2002 as Haen- posts: legio :-)
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think !
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think !
This is cool stuff and I'm glad there are people who do it.
but I for one, do not think I'd enjoy lugging a machine gun around again. I doubt I could even lift my battle jacket these days (where I kept extra ammo belts, grenades, IV drip and pistol).
A soldier is essentially a day laborer who works hard and works cheap, and every so often, somebody tries to kill him. Hmmm - makes me wonder why I ever enlisted!
cheers
Reb
but I for one, do not think I'd enjoy lugging a machine gun around again. I doubt I could even lift my battle jacket these days (where I kept extra ammo belts, grenades, IV drip and pistol).
A soldier is essentially a day laborer who works hard and works cheap, and every so often, somebody tries to kill him. Hmmm - makes me wonder why I ever enlisted!
cheers
Reb
Re: reenactment
Hi Haenhaen2 wrote:Nice photos; indeed decent portrayal. No FARB in sight. Bravo !
However . . . . . .Unterscharführers did not lug an MG, while there was a Sturmmann nearby, who was not carrying anything.
HN
Thank you for commenting, it means alot to us. I'm sure Tim (the Unterscharfurhrer) will have to grow out of his fondness for the MG42
Reb - funny you should say that, I myself am a labourer at the moment (before I head off for a degree in September), since becoming one, lugging kit and heavy pieces of metal has become alot easier and not too dis-similar from work haha. Although I am glad I do not have to deal with being shot at whilst doing it.
Tom.
Der püppchen
Hello!
Like I said before, I think Tom/Sani116 is one of the better re-enactors and I am not going to let all the bad ones make him and his unit look bad. Everything looks nice there however there are still too many tents and not enough foxholes! Plus everyone looks so comfy and clean! I still don’t think some people have the right idea about what it means to be a front-line Infantry soldier in combat. These are the guys actually holding the line. The front-line is not a nice fancy line on a map, the line consists of foxholes, dugouts and trenches. The Riflemen of these Infantry Battalions hold the line in these dugouts until called upon to march to a different area. This is the Infantryman’s war.
The Infantryman’s war did not resemble going out camping for the weekend and posing for a few good little photos. The Infantryman’s war was digging a hole, living in it and then marching and digging another hole to live in. I am sorry but perhaps not too many people realize that the real actual combat was fought by the Infantryman and that it was a very rough time. Too many re-enactment photos look like posing or non-combat personnel trying to look like combat personnel. Why don’t most of the re-enactors do a non-combat unit instead? How about the Postal, Supply or Service Corps?
I applaud the good re-enactors like Tom/Sani116 and by all means guys, keep it up, a little more work and you'll be there. But like I said before and I’ll say it again: I believe while re-enacting can give you an idea of what it was like and help you understand, that is all it will be able to do, give you an idea what it was like and nothing more. It also helps if the re-enactors actually know what they are doing and know something about the battles but most don’t seem to. I believe that in no way should someone walk away thinking that they know exactly what it was like. Because there is no way that you will from a re-enactment.
Cheers,
Wolfkin
Like I said before, I think Tom/Sani116 is one of the better re-enactors and I am not going to let all the bad ones make him and his unit look bad. Everything looks nice there however there are still too many tents and not enough foxholes! Plus everyone looks so comfy and clean! I still don’t think some people have the right idea about what it means to be a front-line Infantry soldier in combat. These are the guys actually holding the line. The front-line is not a nice fancy line on a map, the line consists of foxholes, dugouts and trenches. The Riflemen of these Infantry Battalions hold the line in these dugouts until called upon to march to a different area. This is the Infantryman’s war.
The Infantryman’s war did not resemble going out camping for the weekend and posing for a few good little photos. The Infantryman’s war was digging a hole, living in it and then marching and digging another hole to live in. I am sorry but perhaps not too many people realize that the real actual combat was fought by the Infantryman and that it was a very rough time. Too many re-enactment photos look like posing or non-combat personnel trying to look like combat personnel. Why don’t most of the re-enactors do a non-combat unit instead? How about the Postal, Supply or Service Corps?
I applaud the good re-enactors like Tom/Sani116 and by all means guys, keep it up, a little more work and you'll be there. But like I said before and I’ll say it again: I believe while re-enacting can give you an idea of what it was like and help you understand, that is all it will be able to do, give you an idea what it was like and nothing more. It also helps if the re-enactors actually know what they are doing and know something about the battles but most don’t seem to. I believe that in no way should someone walk away thinking that they know exactly what it was like. Because there is no way that you will from a re-enactment.
Cheers,
Wolfkin
Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!!
Hi Wolfkin
Digging in, marching and digging in was exactly what 98% of the groups did at this event, the other two percent consisted of the HQ group (the ones with the tents and truck) and our group who were tasked with recon patrols (an aufklarungs role - but hey) and so were too busy to dig in.
The photos of the W/SS guys were taken on one of their marches to a new position. With the "threat" of Russian "bandits" they were in tactical formation.
Possing for photos is a nessacery evil, it acts as a form of advertising for the group and gives something for group members to look back on and say "that was a great event". Further, 55mm film etc hides alot of the actual dirt; I have a colour photo somewhere of me and my mate when we're about to set off in the car, and my skin looks tanned with dirt. As for our kit, well, it was filthy, sopping wet and so was our food - which is not like modern Army rations, but wrapped in paper...
Incidentally I spoke to a guy from a Canadian group last night, they did a two day training session last weekend in waist deep snow. It was interesting to find that they were able to correlate between some veteran accounts of their clothes and gear freazing. Eric (the chap I was speaking to) found that with the parka suit, when you sweat the water is absorbed into the parka jacket/trousers, where with the extreme cold it freazes and renders the suit almost useless. Its things like this that give people a great insite into how these guys felt 60 years ago, in-fact in Erics case I dont think you can say there was any difference between how he felt and how someone 60 years ago in the same possision felt - god damn cold I should expect!
I agree that re-enactment on an emotional side in the magority of cases can only give us an idea - and is the hobby is not the full monty, its the diet coke of soldiering (a couple callerys short of the real thing), but due to the imput of ex servicemen from all nations and the hard research of us civis, we're getting better at our portrale.
Tomorrow WARS groups will be holding a training event which sees us practising rifle and foot drill, weapons handling and repair, combined with a break down tactical exercise - aimed at teaching units to maintain control of their gruppe or zug in proffesional mannor.
I know all this training etc probably seems silly, but the public show season is almost upon us, and we want to portray the real deal honourably, and not like a bunch of bigmac to'ting wannabe's who 'luuuuurv guns'.
Cheers
Tom.
Digging in, marching and digging in was exactly what 98% of the groups did at this event, the other two percent consisted of the HQ group (the ones with the tents and truck) and our group who were tasked with recon patrols (an aufklarungs role - but hey) and so were too busy to dig in.
The photos of the W/SS guys were taken on one of their marches to a new position. With the "threat" of Russian "bandits" they were in tactical formation.
Possing for photos is a nessacery evil, it acts as a form of advertising for the group and gives something for group members to look back on and say "that was a great event". Further, 55mm film etc hides alot of the actual dirt; I have a colour photo somewhere of me and my mate when we're about to set off in the car, and my skin looks tanned with dirt. As for our kit, well, it was filthy, sopping wet and so was our food - which is not like modern Army rations, but wrapped in paper...
Incidentally I spoke to a guy from a Canadian group last night, they did a two day training session last weekend in waist deep snow. It was interesting to find that they were able to correlate between some veteran accounts of their clothes and gear freazing. Eric (the chap I was speaking to) found that with the parka suit, when you sweat the water is absorbed into the parka jacket/trousers, where with the extreme cold it freazes and renders the suit almost useless. Its things like this that give people a great insite into how these guys felt 60 years ago, in-fact in Erics case I dont think you can say there was any difference between how he felt and how someone 60 years ago in the same possision felt - god damn cold I should expect!
I agree that re-enactment on an emotional side in the magority of cases can only give us an idea - and is the hobby is not the full monty, its the diet coke of soldiering (a couple callerys short of the real thing), but due to the imput of ex servicemen from all nations and the hard research of us civis, we're getting better at our portrale.
Tomorrow WARS groups will be holding a training event which sees us practising rifle and foot drill, weapons handling and repair, combined with a break down tactical exercise - aimed at teaching units to maintain control of their gruppe or zug in proffesional mannor.
I know all this training etc probably seems silly, but the public show season is almost upon us, and we want to portray the real deal honourably, and not like a bunch of bigmac to'ting wannabe's who 'luuuuurv guns'.
Cheers
Tom.Der püppchen
-
pzrmeyer2
You know, along similar lines, I think anyone who plays flag football or streetball should be discouraged from doing so. Street ball does not replicate in any way what the professionals go through. Pro ball players get dirty. They undergo rigorous training and practices that last for hours. They must memorize playbooks and spend hours in the gym. They often get hurt and break limbs, tear ACLs, and even get paralyzed. They must play in pouring rain, snow, mud, sleet. Most recreational players don't do that. SO, I think, just like those that seek to discourage re-eneacting, any playing of sports outside of the pros should be similarly discouraged.
Re dirt
My wife asked me once how we took showers at the sharp end. When I got over my astonishment at the question I thought about it a bit.
and realized that after about three days one scarcely notices that one is dirty. After five days one is completely indifferent.
One of the things I like about being a civilian is that I don't have to take a grenade with me to go to the bathroom!
But it truly is astonishing how rapidly one assimlates to any kind of discomfort.
cheers
Reb
My wife asked me once how we took showers at the sharp end. When I got over my astonishment at the question I thought about it a bit.
and realized that after about three days one scarcely notices that one is dirty. After five days one is completely indifferent.
One of the things I like about being a civilian is that I don't have to take a grenade with me to go to the bathroom!
But it truly is astonishing how rapidly one assimlates to any kind of discomfort.
cheers
Reb
-
Tom Houlihan
- Patron
- Posts: 4301
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:05 pm
- Location: MI, USA
- Contact:
-
phylo_roadking
- Patron
- Posts: 8459
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:41 pm
...and after two weeks your clothes stand up by themselves...too bad they couldn't take your place too so you could catch some sleep, eh?
You know, I often wondered why when we were out on exercises where most of the wild animals went. They are everywhere but why did they all disappear suddenly? Was it the noise? All the humans? No, it was not...it was the smell! My god, the smell...woooh...after two weeks of no shower and multiply that by 600! No wonder the animals stayed away...we smelled worse than them!
Cheers,
Wolfkin
You know, I often wondered why when we were out on exercises where most of the wild animals went. They are everywhere but why did they all disappear suddenly? Was it the noise? All the humans? No, it was not...it was the smell! My god, the smell...woooh...after two weeks of no shower and multiply that by 600! No wonder the animals stayed away...we smelled worse than them!
Cheers,
Wolfkin
Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!!
-
phylo_roadking
- Patron
- Posts: 8459
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:41 pm