I've always been interested in Islam, since I read about the Zanj rebellion in ancient Iraq. Perhaps Christamas-time is not the proper time for such an extreme measure personal change, since I have always honored it as the Birth of our Savior. But, in alll honesty, I must reveal my secret thoughts.
At my age, 55, perhaps it is well to consider a change of--or a new devotion to-- a religion that seems to have little racism, much devotion and the certainty that is lacking in Christianity.
Communism failed, is there an ideology that competes in certainty or devotion as that of Islam?
Your unbiased thoughts, my friends?
Bst,
~D, the EviL
Considering Conversion
Moderator: Commissar D, the Evil
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Commissar D, the Evil
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Considering Conversion
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
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Doktor Krollspell
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Hi Dave,
Every religion or ideology has it's moderate or half-hearted 'slightly interested' followers as well as a bunch of zealots that hijack the idea for their own good.
Good luck with your choice!
Cheers,
Paul
Take your pick! In my opinion it is not the religion or ideology itself that is the leading factor in certainty or devotion but the individual interpretation that people give to them (or are forced upon them by the society they live in).is there an ideology that competes in certainty or devotion as that of Islam
Every religion or ideology has it's moderate or half-hearted 'slightly interested' followers as well as a bunch of zealots that hijack the idea for their own good.
Good luck with your choice!
Cheers,
Paul
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panzerschreck1
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Commisar learn about Zarathrustra before you indulge in Islam!
The worlds first prophet...
BTW You're 5 years younger then my dad....Geeezer! Hhahahha just kiddin.....Happpy Christmas every one.............!......
The worlds first prophet...
BTW You're 5 years younger then my dad....Geeezer! Hhahahha just kiddin.....Happpy Christmas every one.............!......
"Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."[
David
I became a Christian because of the certainty that exists in traditional Christianity. I have no doubts.
There are truly only two religions in the world - Christianity and the others.
that is to say, the religion of grace and the religion(s) of works (which come in various flavors). The latter is the most logical - Islam, Judaism etc assume that by doing a certain number of good works you can appease God and find salvation.
Christianity assumes God has a higher standard - that of perfection, and cannot be appeased by works. Ergo - the Christ - who suffers for the sins of all who cannot be perfect imparting salvation to the rest of us and setting a standard for love and sacrafice.
Christianity in the mainstream denominations has become a watered down pap that certainly does lack the certainty you seek. Beware of that - much post modern Christianity is just moralistic bullshit - Christ did not come to bring us a new morality - everyone already knew right from wrong - He came to bring us Salvation!
Orthodox, normative Christianity can still be found in some Luthern denominations (my own Wisconsin Synod (WELS)) or Missouri Synod which is still pretty good. Some of the Anglicans, Prebyterians and such still teach the old ways of Grace as well.
If you'd like to discuss this more send me a PM. Also I can send you a Luthernan Catechism which I find very helpful in explaining scripture and how it ties in with the ancient creeds: Nicene, Ahtanasian, Apostle's etc.
I might note that I was not born a Lutheran. I was saved by Grace (as are all men) and decided my next step would be to read the manual which of course is the Bible.
So I read the new testament and the Pslams through roughly seven times and went through the old testament a time or two to pull it all together. Also read a lot of CS Lewis who is the thinking man's Christian apologist. see "Mere Christianity" for the single best volume explaining the faith.
When I was satisfied I understood God's word (to a degree at least) I joined a Confessional Lutheran church because I studied up on the various denominations and found that most were no longer wholehy Christian and since I'd found the Bible to be a truly miraculous book I sought a denomination that believed it to be true.
As I say - for details and any help I may offer please move to PM.
You are already saved. Forget that free will nonsense. We have no free will - we serve somebody. What we have is "Free Won't" We can reject our salvation if we wish - but why on earth would we?
This ball of wax didn't just pop up. Somebody put it together and that somebody had a plan and His plan included you!
God bless
Michael (reb)
I became a Christian because of the certainty that exists in traditional Christianity. I have no doubts.
There are truly only two religions in the world - Christianity and the others.
that is to say, the religion of grace and the religion(s) of works (which come in various flavors). The latter is the most logical - Islam, Judaism etc assume that by doing a certain number of good works you can appease God and find salvation.
Christianity assumes God has a higher standard - that of perfection, and cannot be appeased by works. Ergo - the Christ - who suffers for the sins of all who cannot be perfect imparting salvation to the rest of us and setting a standard for love and sacrafice.
Christianity in the mainstream denominations has become a watered down pap that certainly does lack the certainty you seek. Beware of that - much post modern Christianity is just moralistic bullshit - Christ did not come to bring us a new morality - everyone already knew right from wrong - He came to bring us Salvation!
Orthodox, normative Christianity can still be found in some Luthern denominations (my own Wisconsin Synod (WELS)) or Missouri Synod which is still pretty good. Some of the Anglicans, Prebyterians and such still teach the old ways of Grace as well.
If you'd like to discuss this more send me a PM. Also I can send you a Luthernan Catechism which I find very helpful in explaining scripture and how it ties in with the ancient creeds: Nicene, Ahtanasian, Apostle's etc.
I might note that I was not born a Lutheran. I was saved by Grace (as are all men) and decided my next step would be to read the manual which of course is the Bible.
So I read the new testament and the Pslams through roughly seven times and went through the old testament a time or two to pull it all together. Also read a lot of CS Lewis who is the thinking man's Christian apologist. see "Mere Christianity" for the single best volume explaining the faith.
When I was satisfied I understood God's word (to a degree at least) I joined a Confessional Lutheran church because I studied up on the various denominations and found that most were no longer wholehy Christian and since I'd found the Bible to be a truly miraculous book I sought a denomination that believed it to be true.
As I say - for details and any help I may offer please move to PM.
You are already saved. Forget that free will nonsense. We have no free will - we serve somebody. What we have is "Free Won't" We can reject our salvation if we wish - but why on earth would we?
This ball of wax didn't just pop up. Somebody put it together and that somebody had a plan and His plan included you!
God bless
Michael (reb)
I've come around now.
Listen Commisar, you wanna do what these lads advise if you've hit that level of inner thinking........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Kxq-2Y ... ed&search=
These Brothers know!
Regards, Jez. UK.
Listen Commisar, you wanna do what these lads advise if you've hit that level of inner thinking........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Kxq-2Y ... ed&search=
These Brothers know!
Regards, Jez. UK.
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Waleed Y. Majeed
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hmmmm... Opium I know of, religion as I know I have lost touch of...
I would say be true to yourself and God (who/whatever he, she, it be)!
In some religions well known to all he is one and the same, athough we fight each other in his, his son and prohets names. Does this make us better
human beings or believers..?
Does being a believer of one religion make me better than a believer of another... I say NO!
For me it is enough knowing there's that BIG #1 up there somewhere
I can rely on when in spiritual need.
waleed
I would say be true to yourself and God (who/whatever he, she, it be)!
In some religions well known to all he is one and the same, athough we fight each other in his, his son and prohets names. Does this make us better
human beings or believers..?
Does being a believer of one religion make me better than a believer of another... I say NO!
For me it is enough knowing there's that BIG #1 up there somewhere
I can rely on when in spiritual need.
waleed
Religion
Hi Commissar
I understand the feeling. However, Islam may not be your answer.
I would study the beginnings of the sect; Mohammed did not remember his revelations (the first three) and had to ask his wife what they had been.
He also was a womanizer, and each time he wanted another one, he conveniently got a message from Gabriel that it was O.K. Islam still does not have a high regard for women, they are more or less property, like cattle.
Read,![:[]](./images/smilies/icon_study.gif "Study")
and re-read the Koran, preferably an older version, since the newer ones have been 'cleaned up", as to not offend possible converts.
Racial equality ? Look at Sudan. Arab muslims murdering black muslims.
Otherwise it's just like any other religion / cult / sect, it's a matter of belief.
Peacefull ? "All the infidels may be slaughtered" An infidel being any one who does not belief THEIR version of God.
good luck in your search my friend, but remember you don't neeed a "label" to have a good relationship with your maker.
Happy new Year
HN
I understand the feeling. However, Islam may not be your answer.
I would study the beginnings of the sect; Mohammed did not remember his revelations (the first three) and had to ask his wife what they had been.
He also was a womanizer, and each time he wanted another one, he conveniently got a message from Gabriel that it was O.K. Islam still does not have a high regard for women, they are more or less property, like cattle.
Read,
and re-read the Koran, preferably an older version, since the newer ones have been 'cleaned up", as to not offend possible converts.Racial equality ? Look at Sudan. Arab muslims murdering black muslims.
Otherwise it's just like any other religion / cult / sect, it's a matter of belief.
Peacefull ? "All the infidels may be slaughtered" An infidel being any one who does not belief THEIR version of God.
good luck in your search my friend, but remember you don't neeed a "label" to have a good relationship with your maker.
Happy new Year
HN
joined forum early spring of 2002 as Haen- posts: legio :-)
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think !
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think !
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krichter33
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After being told by my parish priest many years ago that religion and going to church do not make a Christian or even a good person [as he said, mafia bosses and politicians go to church] I picked the eyes out of the major religions and created my own. Works for me, it's simple determine to harm no one and strive to achieve for others, and don't try and make deals with God, whatever name you choose to call ...... .
- Hans
- Hans
Was haben wir für dich gewollt
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID
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Beppo Schmidt
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Ultimately David it's a decision you will have to make yourself, but be sure in your heart and soul that you are making the decision which brings you the best sense of completion and peace with yourself. Also, as someone else said (in so many words), it's not the amount of certainty in the religion, it's the amount of certainty in the believer.
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phylo_roadking
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David, an interesting notion - but Islam is MORE racist and far more militantly so and violently so than any other religion I've ever come across. No point in saying but at heart its not - at heart it depends on the teaching of whatever branch or sect ot preacher you happen across.
You have to remember where this religion came from - out of a LONG Persian war of MANY centuries and rulling Persian tribes against many nations - but latterly in the Middle East at the time of its formation...against the rump of the Eastern Roman Empire, still the dominant power in all the lands Islam expanded into. It was a religion that forced conversion or death on non-believers. Doesn't matter how else people try to portray it, its a militant and jihaddist religion, and only appears peaceful because for many years at a time, the largest Islamic nations have just happened to be at peace.
The Koran may look like a blueprint for a peaceful life of comtemplation and thought - but ONLY once a global Islamic nationhood is proclaimed and won. YOU may have the peace and contentment and freedom from want and struggle in your life that you see might allow you to adopt the better parts of the religion....but doesn't take away from the fact that someone somewhere will do something in the name of new converts etc. - which means you! Would you really want that? Someone carrying out some atrocity in Israel, or a Sunni/Shiite actrocity somewhere - and saying but look at the people we attract to Islam around the world, and you nice WASPs condemn us? The vast majority of Moselms may be peaceful and lawabiding - the problem is, more than any other religion I've ever come across, the extremists claim the support of the mainstream.
You have to remember where this religion came from - out of a LONG Persian war of MANY centuries and rulling Persian tribes against many nations - but latterly in the Middle East at the time of its formation...against the rump of the Eastern Roman Empire, still the dominant power in all the lands Islam expanded into. It was a religion that forced conversion or death on non-believers. Doesn't matter how else people try to portray it, its a militant and jihaddist religion, and only appears peaceful because for many years at a time, the largest Islamic nations have just happened to be at peace.
The Koran may look like a blueprint for a peaceful life of comtemplation and thought - but ONLY once a global Islamic nationhood is proclaimed and won. YOU may have the peace and contentment and freedom from want and struggle in your life that you see might allow you to adopt the better parts of the religion....but doesn't take away from the fact that someone somewhere will do something in the name of new converts etc. - which means you! Would you really want that? Someone carrying out some atrocity in Israel, or a Sunni/Shiite actrocity somewhere - and saying but look at the people we attract to Islam around the world, and you nice WASPs condemn us? The vast majority of Moselms may be peaceful and lawabiding - the problem is, more than any other religion I've ever come across, the extremists claim the support of the mainstream.
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Beppo
"it's not the amount of certainty in the religion, it's the amount of certainty in the believer..."
Oh really?
You can believe anything you like as much as you wish - but there is such a thing as objective truth. If you don't for instance, believe in gravity, it will still be an issue for you when you jump off a cliff!
cheers
Reb
"it's not the amount of certainty in the religion, it's the amount of certainty in the believer..."
Oh really?
You can believe anything you like as much as you wish - but there is such a thing as objective truth. If you don't for instance, believe in gravity, it will still be an issue for you when you jump off a cliff!
cheers
Reb