"Santa Claus" is actually a mispronunciation of the Dutch word "Sinterklaas" by the English settlers of New Amsterdam (later renamed New York). It is a variation of a Dutch folk tale based on the historical figure Saint Nicholas, a bishop from Myra in Asia Minor (the greater part of modern-day Turkey), who used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. In the Netherlands, Sint Nicolaas, Sinterklaas' eve is the occasion for gift-giving, when his alleged birthday — actually his name day, the day he died — is celebrated. In the Netherlands, the evening of December 5 (and thus the eve of 6 December, his name day), Sinterklaas is called pakjesavond, it is an evening where people give each other presents. These presents are called surprises. Traditionally, Sinterklaas brings presents to every child that has been good in the past year (in practice to all children). Sinterklaas wears a red bishop's dress including a red mitre, rides a white horse (called Americo) over the rooftops and assisted by helpers called zwarte piet. 'Sinterklaas' has a long white beard, holds a long gold coloured staff with a fancy curled top in his hand (a crosier) and carries a big book with all the children's names in it, and whether they have been good or bad.
Traditionally Saint Nicholas brings his gifts in the night. In The Netherlands adults started to give each other presents on the evening of the 5th; then older children were included and today in that country even the youngest take part in 'Sinterklaasavond' or 'Pakjesavond': children at home sing 'Sinterklaas' songs and suddenly somebody will knock on the door very loudly, and when they go to the door a gunny sack full of presents is found on the doorstep. Alternatively - some improvisation is often called for - the parents 'hear a sound coming from the attic' and then the bag with presents is 'found' there.
BTW, the current looks of Santa Claus -red cloak with white fur trimmings - was invented by the Coca-Cola company for advertising its drinks.
Sieg Xmas!!!
Moderator: Commissar D, the Evil
Almost true! In Victorian England Santa was depicted in the same type of costume as today but the colours of both the costume and the fur trimmings varied as did his cap, beard and belly. Many variations existed and the current version was already among them at least 30 years before Coca Cola was invented.the current looks of Santa Claus -red cloak with white fur trimmings - was invented by the Coca-Cola company for advertising its drinks
So Coca Cola has not 'invented' the modern look of Santa Claus but taken an existing version out of a wide range of Santa depictions and promoted that to the world.
The reindeer and sled were also added by Victorians while in Holland he he rides a white horse. It may be that Sleipnir (Wodan's eightlegged horse) is the origin for this tradition. Many 'facts' about Santa can be traced to pre-Christian times.
Cheers,
Paul
The origins is that of the winter solstice celebrations. Countless gods and godesses of antiquity are celebrated around that time.
The custom of giving gifts has its origins in the Roman Saturnalia festival, I believe?
There is also the custom of sacrificing and eating animals during this time of year but there is also a practical reason for this. In many countries the feed for the animals, from the summer harvest, wouldn't last through the winter so the only choice was to slaughter a few of them.
The holiday we celebrate today is a mix of tradition, customs and religion that has "mutated" into what it is. Personally I'm not too keen on the whole comercial bit of it but enjoy the time spent with family.
As for the doll....if it was saying "Sieg Heil" or something along those lines it would be reason to have it withdrawn. Its just another thing that people are reading too much into.....it's just a doll.
The custom of giving gifts has its origins in the Roman Saturnalia festival, I believe?
There is also the custom of sacrificing and eating animals during this time of year but there is also a practical reason for this. In many countries the feed for the animals, from the summer harvest, wouldn't last through the winter so the only choice was to slaughter a few of them.
The holiday we celebrate today is a mix of tradition, customs and religion that has "mutated" into what it is. Personally I'm not too keen on the whole comercial bit of it but enjoy the time spent with family.
As for the doll....if it was saying "Sieg Heil" or something along those lines it would be reason to have it withdrawn. Its just another thing that people are reading too much into.....it's just a doll.
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Sod sending them there, the climate's too nice! The way things are going in the PC-UK i'll be buyin some corks for me hat and pack a bag!
Re the comment about the giving of gifts coming from the Roman Saturnalia....actually December the 25th IS Saturnalia! The early Church moved the day of Christ's birthday "officially" back to an occasion that most of the known world was already celebrating! Sneaky or what The ONE tradition that definitely comes from Saturnalia is of piggin' out on christmas dinner! Saturnalia was the Roman's pig-out and release safety valve festival, when class barriers were eradicated, you ate and drank til you threw up, and......somehow the idea of giving gifts I DON'T think comes from the Saturnalia tradition of "giving someone one" if you see what I mean!!! LMAO
Re the comment about the giving of gifts coming from the Roman Saturnalia....actually December the 25th IS Saturnalia! The early Church moved the day of Christ's birthday "officially" back to an occasion that most of the known world was already celebrating! Sneaky or what The ONE tradition that definitely comes from Saturnalia is of piggin' out on christmas dinner! Saturnalia was the Roman's pig-out and release safety valve festival, when class barriers were eradicated, you ate and drank til you threw up, and......somehow the idea of giving gifts I DON'T think comes from the Saturnalia tradition of "giving someone one" if you see what I mean!!! LMAO
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who likes to point out to capitalists that Comrade Stalin is dead...But hey, I'm just a godless Communist, so what would I know.....
ok, maybe he is, but Lenin lives! right?
up hear in Canada, some people take 'xmas' as an offensive term. religions are minefields.
When Stalin says "Dance" a wise man dances.- Nikita Kruschev
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Dragunov
Only one religion is a minefield. I was reported once to management by an imbecile for debating with a Muslim guy - turned out it was ok for him to talk about Islam but not for me to talk in return about Christianity.
Thefact that it is that way should give you pause. And indeed, it influenced me when i became a Christian. It made sense that if all the adults mocked one religion it was probably true. (that statement is a quote from a Russian girl who got suspicious after being forced to take an athiesim class under the kindly old Soviet communists)
2000 years of Western Civ is mocked routinely by folks with no better alternative; and whose biggest achievement so far is the creation of post modernist literary criticism. Ok guys, keep workin....
But yeah, it is a minefield all right.
cheers
Reb
Only one religion is a minefield. I was reported once to management by an imbecile for debating with a Muslim guy - turned out it was ok for him to talk about Islam but not for me to talk in return about Christianity.
Thefact that it is that way should give you pause. And indeed, it influenced me when i became a Christian. It made sense that if all the adults mocked one religion it was probably true. (that statement is a quote from a Russian girl who got suspicious after being forced to take an athiesim class under the kindly old Soviet communists)
2000 years of Western Civ is mocked routinely by folks with no better alternative; and whose biggest achievement so far is the creation of post modernist literary criticism. Ok guys, keep workin....
But yeah, it is a minefield all right.
cheers
Reb
Sinterklaas
Timo,
You forgot to mention that Sinterklaas has a black "Pieter"
However thanks to political correctness "Zwarte Piet" has in many cases been replaced by "non racial, and non gender" Helper.
Crazy world.
HN
You forgot to mention that Sinterklaas has a black "Pieter"
However thanks to political correctness "Zwarte Piet" has in many cases been replaced by "non racial, and non gender" Helper.
Crazy world.
HN
joined forum early spring of 2002 as Haen- posts: legio :-)
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think !
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think !
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So, who is ""Zwarte Piet"? Just curious.
By the way, December 25th happens to be the birthday of Mithra. Mithraism was a mainly military cult within the Roman Army. It was in constant competition with early Christianity. Probably it lost because Mithraism hadn't a place in it for women.
Best,
~D, the EviL
By the way, December 25th happens to be the birthday of Mithra. Mithraism was a mainly military cult within the Roman Army. It was in constant competition with early Christianity. Probably it lost because Mithraism hadn't a place in it for women.
Best,
~D, the EviL
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....