A what if about Hitler

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Roddoss72
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A what if about Hitler

Post by Roddoss72 » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:56 pm

I am doing a project at this moment and i have come up with a senario of Hitler dying during Operation Fall Gelb (i wont go into how or why he died but just to say he did).

My question is who would replace Hitler as Fuhrer?, i believe that Hess would be the next Fuhrer but i have spoken to some and they say it would be Himmler, so if anyone can help me i would much appreciate the help.

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:06 pm

Well, according to the "Haig Principle," Hess as Deputy Führer would have been the successor. I can also see Unser Hermann doing some political jockeying for the throne. He might have been able to do it, somehow, as he seems to have had more influence than Hess.

Himmler? I really doubt it.
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Post by Rajin Cajun » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:04 am

I agree with Tom it would have come down to Hess and Goering. Himmler wasn't really a factor in the political hierarchy. Though I'm sure he had the imbition to.
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Post by pzrmeyer2 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:28 am

What about Eva Braun?

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Post by Paddy Keating » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:51 am

Probably Göring. He had more juice than Himmler in 1940.

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Post by Michael N. Ryan » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:47 am

My bet would be on Goering. Other than Heydrich he's the only one in that crowd with a brain. And because of being stuck in an ongoing war, I doubt the Generals or anybody else would question the legalities until much after the fact. I don't think the Generals had the guts to push a Junta into power though I believe they would not give Goering the total support they gave Hitler. Their loyalty would have a price.

Hess can be mildly described as Eccentric but some of the stuff I have been reading about him would make me think he was slightly nuts. I don't believe he had what it takes to take power.

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Post by phylo_roadking » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:14 am

Problem is, as one of the big faces of the NSDAP Hess was VERY popular with the people until around the end of 1940. So he can't be discounted. Also, everyone confuses Herman's drug-using, makeup-wearing expanding waistline antics of the later war years with the consummate politician and secret policeman of the early Nazi government years. Politically - in peacetime - he was far from being the comic fool that he "appeared" to be later in the war.

Hess could have been made use of as a figurehead, or even as politcail head in a Soviet-style troika; Goering, if not the actual successor, would be the visible power behind the throne, and its not unlikely that Himmler now would come into real "officially-given" power, like Beria and the NKVD. Might have been bloody at first, but it would soon settle down.

Don't forget too - the Fuhrer Oath was a personal oath, so at THIS time the Army might have tried to reassert itself politically....with Hitler off the scene.....
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Post by Andy H » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:39 pm

I would place my money on Goering.

His star was still rising and he held political & economic clout within the party system and the country at large.

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Post by Roddoss72 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:35 pm

Well how about this senario i am working on at the moment

Hitler dies in Operation Fall Gelb

Hess is appointed Fuhrer with the backing of the Army and Navy and a substantial portion of the airforce, while Goering and Himmler are plotting against Hess, Hess fearing this invites Goering to meet him at the Reichtag and offers Goering "A Rommel" either commit suicide and be buried as a hero to the Reich or be executed for treason, Goering is place under "special protective custody" and returns home Goering has no alternative but to commit suicide, and conveniently Himmler has an accident not long after, Heydrich is appointed Head of the SS while Papen is appointed Deputy Fuhrer

Could this be a possibility.

Regards.
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Post by Rajin Cajun » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:29 am

No that seems totally absurd. If anyone would be committing suicide it would have been Hess.
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Post by phylo_roadking » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:51 am

Hess only had Party support, in wartime if you have politicised generals the army always votes/sides with them. During Fall Gelb Goering's star was very much in the ascendant, it wasn't for another few moinths that he trips over his own feet in the skies over Britain. Remember Goering was prime minister of Bavaria, then the speaker of the Reichstag after January 1933, and head of the State Secret police in Bavaria and subsequently the Gestapo until the end of 1933. None of these were political appointments, he held them because he was good LOL Hess had the misfortune to be very much in the public limeliht, but without very much real power. More likely that events would happen exactly the other way round.

I know the Nazi hierarchy immediately below Hitler disliked each other intensely, but in the event of having to replace Hitler they'd work together until something better arose. 1/ it was a case of a Nazi successor from among Nazis, or 2/ a sudden whirlwind revolution that would mean the successor was something COMPLETLY different. In THIS case the Nazi hierarchy would hold together.

IF Goering came to power, I don't think he would actually last very long, He had too much ability to be a Krushchev sort of a peasant character, despite his aristocratic background. If he became fuhrer then within a sort time he'd be overthrown by a more balanced troika with a figurehead. And once the NSDAP were accustomed to ruling that way, as in Russia, youve basically sorted the succession issue and don't need a Hitler figure. You have the one thing Europe REALLY feared, longterm stable Nazi rule, like all those octagenarian Soviet premiers in the Cold War.
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pzrmeyer2

Post by pzrmeyer2 » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:32 am

Remember Goering was prime minister of Bavaria, then the speaker of the Reichstag after January 1933, and head of the State Secret police in Bavaria
I think you mean Prussia...



Hess is appointed Fuhrer with the backing of the Army and Navy and a substantial portion of the airforce, while Goering and Himmler are plotting against Hess, Hess fearing this invites Goering to meet him at the Reichtag and offers Goering "A Rommel" either commit suicide and be buried as a hero to the Reich or be executed for treason, Goering is place under "special protective custody" and returns home Goering has no alternative but to commit suicide, and conveniently Himmler has an accident not long after, Heydrich is appointed Head of the SS while Papen is appointed Deputy Fuhrer
ridiculous. I think the "dislike of each other" theme is a bit over-hyped as far as 1940 goes. Whym at the height of their nation's military success would they start killing each other?
I think Goering wouyld be the guy--the others would have kept up appearances and their fiefdoms. No one else enjoyed the mass popularity he had at that time.

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