German Uniforms / Fascination ?

Nordwest · Post by **Nordwest** » Sun May 28, 2006 4:34 pm

What is this worldwide "fascination" about german uniforms from the period before 1945, especially the uniforms of the SS, and Waffen-SS.

Many famous actors from all over the world, who perfomed in these uniforms as actors, stated that they felt very "comfortable", wearing such a german uniform...

We all know these childish arguments, like "cool", "sharp", "sexy", etc., the common bla-bla, mostly from younger people.

For sure, Sepp Dietrich made a "better" appearance, conc. to high ranking russian, english or american high ranking officers of that time, no question at all...

But this "fascination" is still alive nowadays, for what reason?

BTW, I would not like to have a mannequin, wearing an original SS or Waffen-SS uniform in my living room, not even in the basement at all...

Is my oppinion a typical "german view", conc. this topic, I am very interested about your following answers?

Danke!

Michael

Sorry, please move this to the Soldatenheim, moderator, thanks.

Doktor Krollspell · Post by **Doktor Krollspell** » Sun May 28, 2006 11:21 pm

Hello Michael!

It's difficult to explain what kind of psychological factors that are working when it comes to this subject. A similar question is why everyone always are genuinely interested in the german side of the war... the battles, the soldiers and officers (and uniforms

), the weaponry and equipment...

I remember when, as kids, my friends and I started to build plastic models of mainly aircrafts and tanks. Everyone, and I mean everyone, almost immediately focused on the german side of it all. And this was Sweden in the mid-seventies when World War II in general, and the German side in particular was not PC and I have to repeat, not PC!
And back in the seventies, the Anglo-Saxon view of WWII was almost totally dominant when it came to movies, documentaries on swedish television, military history books and so on... But still, we made our Tiger I's and painted the soldiers black...

Maybe this is part of a much bigger discourse - the fascination with/of fascism when it comes to imagery, symbols, uniforms... This is a very interesting topic and hopefully there will be a lot of input (without aggression) to carry this debate further... Hmm, I have to gather my thoughts...

With best regards,

Krollspell

Paulus II · Post by **Paulus II** » Sun May 28, 2006 11:43 pm

Hi Michael,

My experience in this matter is almost equal to Krollspells. During the mid-70's me and my friends started building models of airplanes and tanks and painting soldiers. All, yes ALL without any exception, immediately went for the German side.
Holland was very US/UK Allied oriented when it came to the 'official' view on the war. I remember a series on TV in the late 70's or early 80's about the Ostfront. It was called 'The Forgotten War'. And rightly so because though everyone knew about the fight in the east all credit and gratitude for defeating Nazi Germany went to the Western Allies.
So even though we were far from well informed about the war, we understood that we were better off now than we have been under the Nazi's, had heard about Auschwitz (but were probably too young to fully grasp the enormous scale of death) and still we all fell for the German uniforms, equipment and what have you.
So this fascination is certainly not just a German thing. At least in Holland and Sweden it occurs frequently.

The crazy thing is that it is not just the children. Here I am now, almost 40 years old always voting on the Social Democrat Party, definitely NOT a racist, never trusting any form of totalitarianism, well aware of the wholesale murder that took place during the Nazi regime and still I am very interested in the German Army.
Not fascinated anymore, too many other fields of interest to look into, but still.........

Best regards,

Paul

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Mon May 29, 2006 4:32 am

Hello!

As far as the uniforms go, they were just beautiful clothes, classic tailoring, and that doesn't change. I think it simply reflected the status of the soldier and officer in German society and culture at the time, much as the tailoring of just about all standing armies from the 18th century onward displayed the high status of officers in particular but also the value of all soldiers as defenders of the realm. Call it 'Prussian militarism' or whatever you want, but I think those ideas lingered longer in Germany than elsewhere, hence the most beautiful uniforms of WW2.

Regards
Jake

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Mon May 29, 2006 4:41 am

well, appearence of German uniforms , competence in combat like the Afrika Korps, Waffen SS, heroism like clever personalities like Hartmann, Rommel, and the "cool" noise, firepowere and appearence of Panzers, the Blitzkrieg, how amazing it was that the Wehrmacht managed to defeat the mighty French and British in 6 weeks, all play a big role. And this is even reinforced, by games and movies with Panzers and German soldiers with camo uniforms like Medal of Honour, Battlefield 1942, etc.

And I mean about the imagery... even for the most critical viewer, who wouldn't be swept away, evne for a few seconds, by the Prussian gooses step done by many soldiers in immpresive uniforms playing along with martial military marches?

And there is nothing wrong with it, it's just part of human nature.

cheers,

Kevin.

Rolf Steiner · Post by **Rolf Steiner** » Mon May 29, 2006 5:30 am

There's a classic quote from a review of a film with Marlon Brando as a German officer (might have been Young Lions but I forget) which dealt with this rather succinctly, but I can't remember it exactly. Something about a film can be anti-war yet pro-uniform, and those jodphurs being very flattering to a man's rump!

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Mon May 29, 2006 6:28 am

AHEM! Theres a thread around here somewhere for all that "rump" talk lol

phylo

Nordwest · Post by **Nordwest** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:55 pm

Thank you all, for your replies so far, very interesting to read, please keep them coming...

What does PC stand for, for sure not Personal Computer?

Dankeschön

Michael

Doktor Krollspell · Post by **Doktor Krollspell** » Mon May 29, 2006 2:03 pm

PC = Politically Correct! It basically means that one's opinion(s) in a certain matter is always aligned with, or just plain equal to, what the public opinion/official opinion and/or debate dictates... This is very often the self-acclaimed opinion elite in a society, media, the leading politicians etc. that formulates the "right" opinions in big and/or sensitive questions in society...

The PC term was maybe not coined and used as such in Sweden in the seventies but we sure as hell had the phenomena back then!

The one Holy Cow when it came to Sweden and WWII was our Holy/Righteous Neutrality policy that worked like a Clockwork, ie 100%... NOT!

In school we were taught that the only

breach of Swedish neutrality was the so called Transfer of the German "Engelbrecht" Division (163 ID) from Norway, through Northern Sweden to Finland, just prior to Barbarossa. It was just like in the early nineties that the truth started to make public appearances. Because in reality, something like 2.3 Million german soldiers passed Swedish territory (mainly territorial waters) in 1941-43. This was a secret that was well kept from younger swedish generations in the sixties, seventies and eighties...

Sweden was oh so good because we were oh so neutral... And I will not get started on how we, for all practical, tactical, strategical and political reasons, where a country heavily entangled/involved/allied to NATO but where we members...? Did we ever had (or have) a realistic and serious NATO debate in Sweden...? Did we, or did we not have a common enemy/threat between 1945 and 1991...?

All this was publicy and officially ordered non-issues because... we where oh so neutral...

Whiny regards,

Krollspell

mvonb · Post by **mvonb** » Mon May 29, 2006 2:49 pm

Michael, I saw three different people wearing newly made jackets at the weekend with erbsenmuster and eichenlaubmuster fabrics. They were not true feldjacken, but a weird hybrid of a bomber jacket and a feldjacke. And the owners did not look like typical neo nazis, even though there are a few on the kiez here in hamburg. Made me think about how people would react to someone wearing a real period piece.

Nordwest · Post by **Nordwest** » Mon May 29, 2006 3:14 pm

Hallo mvonb!

I remember very well from the early 1970s, the so called "military-look" was very popular at that time.

Everyone was wearing american Parkas, Schnürstiefel, etc.

Nowadays this new "military-look" is once again fashion, and the kids and youngsters do not know ANYTHING about these (german?) camouflaged patterns.

My favourite jacket is a US M65 in "woodland" pattern, I was given to me by a G.I. in the year 1981. (Thanks Monty!)
This jacket is "unkaputtbar", even after more than 25 years, schier Qualität!

And no, I am NOT a Neo-Nazi, I just like this very rugged jacket, thats it.

Regards

Michael

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Mon May 29, 2006 4:22 pm

Noone loves all German Uniforms unless they are secretly Nazi's or just a bit off.

hi TS Allen, they are just history, that's all. Its allright to be intrested and like them, as long as you are not being political and using the uniforms for political reasons.

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:12 am

Ah, Herr Doktor, but dont forget how the scales were righted....The Ballbearing Run!!!

phylo

panzerlied24 · Post by **panzerlied24** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:35 pm

There is a definite fascination in the United States and it appears in the rest of the world with the German military during WWII. All facets of German arms during that period were cutting edge. From the Me262, to the Tiger, the Sturmgewehr 44 to the V-2 the German military in all facets was cutting edge. Combine modern weapons with a cunning and ruthless leadership and cadre and it is to understand the great interest in all things German from WWII. Did any nations pilots look more dashing than a luftwaffe pilot going into batle with a Ritterkreuz around his neck? Did any soldiers look more menacing that an SS trooper with a Death'sHead insignia? To be fascinated by something is not to condone what it represents. If one reads or watches movies about serial killers does it make one want to commit murder? Of course not. What is troubling, as an American of German ancestry is the incessant handwringing and apologizing by the Germans for everything that happened in WWII. I read with disgust an article in Die Spiegel how all Germans from now until the end of time must bear the burden of the Nazi regime. I know this last comment is off topic but I would like to know from someone in Germany why they feel guilt for crimes they were not alive to commit

Nordwest · Post by **Nordwest** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:39 pm

As a young person, born 1956, I did collect german uniforms and german weapons of WWII.

Not just pistols and carbines, the "heavy" stuff, like MG34/42, several Sturmgewehre, even an original Panzerfaust was nothing very "special" during these years in the 1970s, even at that time 100% illegal stuff here in Germany.

We were "fascinated" by this stuff, which was very easy and cheap to get, if you knew the sellers, and the "connections".

I am out of this "collecting" for many years now, nowadays collecting photos, books, posters of that period.

I do not like a single gun in our house nowadays, guns cause trouble, sooner or later, and I know, what I am talking about...

Michael