So called "Polish concentration camps"

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Musashi
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So called "Polish concentration camps"

Post by Musashi »

I'd like to turn your attention to a one problem - the responsibility for killing people in the German Nazi camps in Poland is more and more often shifted to Poles. Many morons in the world say such bullshits like below straighforwardly. I can't provide links to Polish articles on that, because I was busy some time ago and did not expect these articles would be moved to archives and paid after a few days.
Pani Schindler, wdowa po niemieckim przemysłowcu uwiecznionym w filmie Lista Schindlera, została wyróżniona przez argentyński rząd za swój udział w ratowaniu Żydów z polskich obozów koncentracyjnych (australijskie radio ABC, 1999r.)
Mrs. Schindler, a widow after a German industrialist perpetuated in the film Schindler's list has been favoured by Argentinian Government for her participation in rescuing Jews from Polish concentration camps.
[Australian ABC radio, 1999]

Moja babcia zginęła, a ciotka ledwo uszła z życiem w polskim obozie koncentracyjnym (Michael Howard, przywódca brytyjskich konserwatystów, 2004r.)
My grandmother died and an aunt barely saved her neck in a Polish concentration camp.
[Michael Howard, the leader of British conservatists, 2004]
Papież pochodzący z kraju, który wymyślił Auschwitz (belgijskie Le Soir Illustre, 2000r.)
A pope becoming from a country, which invented Auschwitz...
[Belgian Le Soir Illustre, 2000]
Film Pianista (...) o muzyku, który przeżył w nazistowskiej Polsce, został nagrodzony na festiwalu w Cannes (The Australian 2002r.)
The film "The pianist" (...) about a musician, who survived in Nazi Poland has been awarded in The Festival of Cannes.
[The Australian, 2002]

Polish embassies in all over the world intervened almost 50 times in January sending protests to various institutions, radios, newspapers, etc. Some journalists apologized and corrected information, however some of them did not see anything incorrect in writing such craps.

Such craps were written in Corriere de la Sera, the Guardian, the Independent, der Spiegel and broadcasted on Canadian and Australian television.

George, a Pole who lives in Sydney has a daughter who goes to Australian school. According to her having read an Australian history handbook she learnt about "Polish concentration camps", while it was not written even a single word "German" or "Germans" in this chapter.
"Chcielibyśmy przypomnieć wszystkim, którzy nie znają faktów lub nieostrożnie dobierają słowa, jak to było w przypadku niektórych mediów, że Auschwitz-Birkenau i inne obozy śmierci jak Bełżec, Chełmno, Majdanek, Sobibór i Treblinka, zostały zaprojektowane, zbudowane i kierowane przez nazistowskie Niemcy i ich sojuszników" -
"Obozy zostały zlokalizowane w okupowanej przez Niemcy Polsce, kraju z największą wówczas populacją Żydów, ale stanowczo nie były »polskimi obozami«. Nie jest to tylko kwestia semantyczna. Chodzi o historyczną uczciwość i dokładność" - czytamy w oświadczeniu, w którym przypomniano poza tym, że w Auschwitz przetrzymywani byli także Polacy i że Polska była pierwszą ofiarą agresji Trzeciej Rzeszy.

"Wszelkie przekłamania na temat roli Polski w czasie II wojny światowej, umyślne czy przypadkowe, są jak najbardziej godne pożałowania i nie powinny pozostać bez odpowiedzi"
http://info.onet.pl/1047289,12,item.html (in Polish)
[My translation]:
The proclamation of the American Jews' Committee:
David A. Harris, the director of AJC wrote:We would like to mind everybody, who don't know the facts or careless choose words, as it was in case of some media, that Auschwitz-Birkenau and the other death camps like Belzhec, Chelmno, Maidanek, Sobibor and Treblinka have been designed, built and managed by Nazi Germany and its allies. The camps were located in occupied by Germany Poland, the country with the largest Jews' population at the time, but they absolutely were not "Polish camps". It's not only semantic matter. The matter is a historical honesty. All the lies on role of Poland during WW II, the deliberate or the accidental ones are pitiful and they should not be left without an answer".
European Parliament wanted to issue a proclamation due to 60th Anniversary of liberation of Auschwitz.
It was described as "a concentration camp on Poland's territory", but Polish politicians did not agree on that, and proposed "German concentration camp". Then German politicians did not agreed and proposed "Nazi-Hitlerite camp". Polish politicians did not agree being very stubborn and explaining the Nazis had a nationality and did not come from the Mars.
The compromise ultimate version was "German Nazi camp".


Something on dinner:
Mengele, the gifted son of a rich industrialist, has been held responsible for the deaths of as many as 400,000 people in the infamous Polish death camp.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Mengele/diaries_found.html
[My emphasis]

Open letter by the Polish Foreign Minister on the use of term "Polish concentration camps" to describe German Nazi concentration camps in occupied Poland - 8/19/2004

The letter was originally published by "The National Post", CanWest News Service, "The Ottawa Citizen" and "The Vancouver Sun" on August 18, 2004.

In a global environment we live, international relations focus primarily on such basic issues as international and national security, multilateral institutions and equitable trade relations, but also on the perception of human rights and a sense of justice associated with the sensitivity for historical truth. The later had always been a cornerstone of both Canadian and Polish foreign policy and we have never neglected to speak when it was necessary to defend them and uphold our values. Recently public opinion in Poland as well as the Canadian Polish community have been shocked to learn of the position taken by one of the prominent Canadian broadcast media outlets, the CTV, regarding the most painful part of our common history, namely the World War II and the Holocaust. We were told - and such was the clear message directed to the Canadian television viewers - that the Nazi German concentration camp at Treblinka in the Northeast of Poland set up in 1942 to facilitate the nightmarish plan of the Nazi "final solution" meaning simply the extermination of the European Jews, a camp which became a mass graveyard of hundreds of thousands of them was labelled a "Polish camp at Treblinka". There cannot be any other reaction to such a slander and ignorance than the demand of unconditional regret of the broadcaster in front of the same TV viewers who were exposed to this obvious insult harming not only the Poles of today but the victims of the Holocaust as well.


We consider Canadians well-informed society where integrity of the public dialogue and decent respect towards all communities contributing to the renowned Canadian formula of multiculturalism, have played fundamental role. Therefore it is even less understandable how such an example of the offensive and clearly biased misinformation could have found its way to the nationwide Canadian broadcast media organization. This incident becomes painfully irritating when we realize how easy - with minimum empathy and good will - is to learn today the historical truth, to check out simple facts. There are hundreds of documents, texts and testimonies describing German Nazi-orchestrated horror of Treblinka death factory that may be instantly found on the Internet. What makes the CTV report even more appalling, and indeed prompted both many Canadians of Polish descent, the Government of Poland and myself to look with scrutiny at this incident, is that while we have immediately demanded a formal apology through proper diplomatic channels, the President of the Company not only refused to do so but explicitly stated that a "Polish concentration camp" is a correct term and a proper phrase, relating to the geographical location. It seems that the CTV executives are unaware that the only proper, internationally accepted and historians-verified term is "the Nazi concentration camp in Germany-occupied Poland". Labeling the camp as "Polish" shifts the responsibility thus falsifying the fundamental truth about the Holocaust perpetrators.


In Poland, and several other European countries, it is legally qualified as the so-called "Auschwitz lie" and is a subject to criminal persecution. The remembrance of Jewish, Polish and many other nations' victims of Nazi genocide demand that we do not forget and call out if injustice is done. We have done so on many international issues and we found the Government of Canada a friend and a partner in this process. Over the last century Poland, has suffered human tragedy, death and destruction beyond any measure. For this reason we have to look with disdain upon those who, for reasons we refuse to consider, deny history, simplify the past and vilify the fallen.


Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz

Minister of Foreign Affairs Republic of Poland
http://www.polishembassy.ca/news_details.asp?nid=200

Letter to CRTC
July 29, 2004



Mr. Charles Dalfen, Chair
The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Ottawa, ON
K1A 0N2




Dear Mr. Dalfen,

As you may already know, on April 30, 2004, CTV referred in its news broadcast to the notorious nazi death camp in Treblinka as a "Polish camp".

Built by Hitler's administration in 1942 as one of six extermination camps for the purpose of "The Final Solution", Treblinka took the lives of some 800,000 Jews and Gypsies from Poland, Austria, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, Jugoslavia, Germany and the Soviet Union. During the 13 months of the camp's operation, the killing rate exceeded 2,000 people a day, making Treblinka the most deadly of all nazi death camps.

The term "Polish camp" is both historically inaccurate and highly defamatory to the Poles. No Pole was involved in any aspect of the Treblinka camp operations. While the village indeed lies in Eastern Poland, during WWII the entire country was under nazi occupation, with enormous suffering and loss of life exceeding 20% of total population.

Numerous protests by Polish and Jewish organizations in Canada have been lodged with Robert Hurst, President of CTV News, including the enclosed letter from Poland's ambassador in Ottawa. Mr. Hurst refuses to run a retraction. What is more, he insists on continuing to use the defamatory and hurtful terms "Polish camps", "Polish concentration camps" and "Polish death camps", as indicated in his letter of May 6, 2004, enclosed for your reference.

It is our belief that CTV's stance on this issue contradicts public interest of Canadians, is highly hurtful to the Polish community here, and, equally important, borders on Holocaust denial by removing the odium of atrocities from its true perpetrators, the nazis.

Our organization, founded in 1988, is dedicated to preserving the unique culture of Polish Jews and fosters better understanding between Poles and Jews in Canada. We take exception to CTV's practice and policy as demonstrated in Mr. Hurst's May 6 letter and ask that CRTC takes steps to ensure CTV refrains from using this defamatory, hurtful and historically untrue language.

Sincerely yours,

THE POLISH-JEWISH HERITAGE FOUNDATION OF CANADA



Peter Jassem, President

cc: Mr. Ivan Fecan, CEO, Bell Globemedia Inc.
Mr. Michael J. Sabia, CEO, BCE Inc.

Poland demands Ottawa censure CTV over 'insult'
Broadcaster refuses to apologize after calling Treblinka a 'Polish' camp


Mike Blanchfield
CanWest News Service

Wednesday, August 18, 2004

OTTAWA - Poland has asked the Canadian government to take action against broadcaster CTV for refusing to apologize to viewers for referring to a Nazi German concentration camp in Poland as a "Polish camp."

In a letter to be sent to the Foreign Affairs Department today, the Polish government asks the federal government "to take appropriate actions to ensure that the dignity of the Republic of Poland, the ally of Canada in NATO, and the Polish nation is not affected by the untrue and detrimental information spread in Canada by the media."

The letter doesn't specify what the government should do but suggests that "for the sake of good relations that have existed between our two countries" it might want to consider unspecified action through the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, which licenses broadcasters.

The letter is the latest salvo in an international dispute between the Polish government and the Canadian private broadcaster. It centres over wording in televised reports in November, 2003, and on April 30 about convicted Nazi war criminal John Demjanjuk, a guard at the Treblinka concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germans in occupied Poland during the Second World War.

The April 30 story referred to Demjanjuk being a guard at "the Polish camp of Treblinka."

Poland's ambassador to Canada, Pavel Dobrowolski, demanded an apology and a correction from CTV News president Robert Hurst in a May 6 letter.

"This choice of words is offensive to the Polish people and the government of Poland. The concentration camp in Treblinka was created by the Nazi Germans, who invaded and occupied Poland during the WWII," Mr. Dobrowolski wrote. "Therefore, to call the concentration camp in Treblinka 'the Polish camp of Treblinka' is an insult to millions of Poles who sacrificed their lives in the fight against Nazi Germany."

In a May 28 letter, Mr. Hurst declined to apologize, saying the wording was not meant to insult Poles and the context of the report made it clear the camp was run by Nazi Germans in occupied Poland.

"We sincerely regret that you were offended and that you feel that the usage of this term is insulting to the Polish nation and to Canada," Mr. Hurst wrote.

The reference, Mr. Hurst explained, was "to denote the location of the camps, not the country or the people responsible for the same."

Mr. Hurst wrote that although he understood the concerns "and believes in the use of precise language, we believe the term was again used in an appropriate fashion."

Mr. Hurst could not be reached for comment yesterday.

The Polish government is not satisfied with CTV's response and wants the government to intervene.

Polish Foreign Affairs Minister Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz is calling on CTV to issue a public apology, "in front of the same TV viewers who were exposed to this obvious insult that harmed not only the Poles of today, but the victims of the Holocaust as well."

Mr. Cimoszewicz said the exact words used in the report are important.

"It seems that the CTV executives are unaware that the only proper, internationally accepted and historians-verified term is 'the Nazi concentration camp in Germany-occupied Poland.' "

Demjanjuk, an 84-year-old retired autoworker, lost his U.S. citizenship bid in an Ohio appeal court in April. Demjanjuk is in ill health, but has not exhausted his last appeal avenue to the U.S. Supreme Court.

An Israeli court convicted him of war crimes and crimes against humanity for being a notorious gas chamber guard known as Ivan the Terrible. Demjanjuk has maintained he is the victim of mistaken identity.

Three days after Demjanjuk's court appearance, The Associated Press news service, which covered the news development, issued a clarification over how it referred to the Treblinka camp.

"The Associated Press referred to Poland's Treblinka death camp. The story should have specified that Poland was occupied by Nazi Germany in the Second World War, and that death camps in Polish territory were operated by the Germans," said a clarification issued on May 3 on the AP wire.

About 5.5 million Poles, including more than three million Polish Jews, died during the three-year Nazi occupation of Poland during the Second World War.

Six million Jews were systematically killed during the Holocaust.

(Ottawa Citizen)
http://www.pjhftoronto.ca/ctv1.html
Ezekiel 25:17. "And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."
User avatar
Walter Wulfsen
Banned
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:22 am
Location: upstate New York

Re: So called "Polish concentration camps"

Post by Walter Wulfsen »

Musashi wrote:I'd like to turn your attention to a one problem - the responsibility for killing people in the German Nazi camps in Poland is more and more often shifted to Poles. Many morons in the world say such bullshits like below straighforwardly. I can't provide links to Polish articles on that, because I was busy some time ago and did not expect these articles would be moved to archives and paid after a few days.
Pani Schindler, wdowa po niemieckim przemysłowcu uwiecznionym w filmie Lista Schindlera, została wyróżniona przez argentyński rząd za swój udział w ratowaniu Żydów z polskich obozów koncentracyjnych (australijskie radio ABC, 1999r.)
Mrs. Schindler, a widow after a German industrialist perpetuated in the film Schindler's list has been favoured by Argentinian Government for her participation in rescuing Jews from Polish concentration camps.
[Australian ABC radio, 1999]

Moja babcia zginęła, a ciotka ledwo uszła z życiem w polskim obozie koncentracyjnym (Michael Howard, przywódca brytyjskich konserwatystów, 2004r.)
My grandmother died and an aunt barely saved her neck in a Polish concentration camp.
[Michael Howard, the leader of British conservatists, 2004]
Papież pochodzący z kraju, który wymyślił Auschwitz (belgijskie Le Soir Illustre, 2000r.)
A pope becoming from a country, which invented Auschwitz...
[Belgian Le Soir Illustre, 2000]
Film Pianista (...) o muzyku, który przeżył w nazistowskiej Polsce, został nagrodzony na festiwalu w Cannes (The Australian 2002r.)
The film "The pianist" (...) about a musician, who survived in Nazi Poland has been awarded in The Festival of Cannes.
[The Australian, 2002]

Polish embassies in all over the world intervened almost 50 times in January sending protests to various institutions, radios, newspapers, etc. Some journalists apologized and corrected information, however some of them did not see anything incorrect in writing such craps.

Such craps were written in Corriere de la Sera, the Guardian, the Independent, der Spiegel and broadcasted on Canadian and Australian television.

George, a Pole who lives in Sydney has a daughter who goes to Australian school. According to her having read an Australian history handbook she learnt about "Polish concentration camps", while it was not written even a single word "German" or "Germans" in this chapter.
"Chcielibyśmy przypomnieć wszystkim, którzy nie znają faktów lub nieostrożnie dobierają słowa, jak to było w przypadku niektórych mediów, że Auschwitz-Birkenau i inne obozy śmierci jak Bełżec, Chełmno, Majdanek, Sobibór i Treblinka, zostały zaprojektowane, zbudowane i kierowane przez nazistowskie Niemcy i ich sojuszników" -
"Obozy zostały zlokalizowane w okupowanej przez Niemcy Polsce, kraju z największą wówczas populacją Żydów, ale stanowczo nie były »polskimi obozami«. Nie jest to tylko kwestia semantyczna. Chodzi o historyczną uczciwość i dokładność" - czytamy w oświadczeniu, w którym przypomniano poza tym, że w Auschwitz przetrzymywani byli także Polacy i że Polska była pierwszą ofiarą agresji Trzeciej Rzeszy.

"Wszelkie przekłamania na temat roli Polski w czasie II wojny światowej, umyślne czy przypadkowe, są jak najbardziej godne pożałowania i nie powinny pozostać bez odpowiedzi"
http://info.onet.pl/1047289,12,item.html (in Polish)
[My translation]:
The proclamation of the American Jews' Committee:
David A. Harris, the director of AJC wrote:We would like to mind everybody, who don't know the facts or careless choose words, as it was in case of some media, that Auschwitz-Birkenau and the other death camps like Belzhec, Chelmno, Maidanek, Sobibor and Treblinka have been designed, built and managed by Nazi Germany and its allies. The camps were located in occupied by Germany Poland, the country with the largest Jews' population at the time, but they absolutely were not "Polish camps". It's not only semantic matter. The matter is a historical honesty. All the lies on role of Poland during WW II, the deliberate or the accidental ones are pitiful and they should not be left without an answer".
European Parliament wanted to issue a proclamation due to 60th Anniversary of liberation of Auschwitz.
It was described as "a concentration camp on Poland's territory", but Polish politicians did not agree on that, and proposed "German concentration camp". Then German politicians did not agreed and proposed "Nazi-Hitlerite camp". Polish politicians did not agree being very stubborn and explaining the Nazis had a nationality and did not come from the Mars.
The compromise ultimate version was "German Nazi camp".


Something on dinner:
Mengele, the gifted son of a rich industrialist, has been held responsible for the deaths of as many as 400,000 people in the infamous Polish death camp.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Mengele/diaries_found.html
[My emphasis]

Open letter by the Polish Foreign Minister on the use of term "Polish concentration camps" to describe German Nazi concentration camps in occupied Poland - 8/19/2004

The letter was originally published by "The National Post", CanWest News Service, "The Ottawa Citizen" and "The Vancouver Sun" on August 18, 2004.

In a global environment we live, international relations focus primarily on such basic issues as international and national security, multilateral institutions and equitable trade relations, but also on the perception of human rights and a sense of justice associated with the sensitivity for historical truth. The later had always been a cornerstone of both Canadian and Polish foreign policy and we have never neglected to speak when it was necessary to defend them and uphold our values. Recently public opinion in Poland as well as the Canadian Polish community have been shocked to learn of the position taken by one of the prominent Canadian broadcast media outlets, the CTV, regarding the most painful part of our common history, namely the World War II and the Holocaust. We were told - and such was the clear message directed to the Canadian television viewers - that the Nazi German concentration camp at Treblinka in the Northeast of Poland set up in 1942 to facilitate the nightmarish plan of the Nazi "final solution" meaning simply the extermination of the European Jews, a camp which became a mass graveyard of hundreds of thousands of them was labelled a "Polish camp at Treblinka". There cannot be any other reaction to such a slander and ignorance than the demand of unconditional regret of the broadcaster in front of the same TV viewers who were exposed to this obvious insult harming not only the Poles of today but the victims of the Holocaust as well.


We consider Canadians well-informed society where integrity of the public dialogue and decent respect towards all communities contributing to the renowned Canadian formula of multiculturalism, have played fundamental role. Therefore it is even less understandable how such an example of the offensive and clearly biased misinformation could have found its way to the nationwide Canadian broadcast media organization. This incident becomes painfully irritating when we realize how easy - with minimum empathy and good will - is to learn today the historical truth, to check out simple facts. There are hundreds of documents, texts and testimonies describing German Nazi-orchestrated horror of Treblinka death factory that may be instantly found on the Internet. What makes the CTV report even more appalling, and indeed prompted both many Canadians of Polish descent, the Government of Poland and myself to look with scrutiny at this incident, is that while we have immediately demanded a formal apology through proper diplomatic channels, the President of the Company not only refused to do so but explicitly stated that a "Polish concentration camp" is a correct term and a proper phrase, relating to the geographical location. It seems that the CTV executives are unaware that the only proper, internationally accepted and historians-verified term is "the Nazi concentration camp in Germany-occupied Poland". Labeling the camp as "Polish" shifts the responsibility thus falsifying the fundamental truth about the Holocaust perpetrators.


In Poland, and several other European countries, it is legally qualified as the so-called "Auschwitz lie" and is a subject to criminal persecution. The remembrance of Jewish, Polish and many other nations' victims of Nazi genocide demand that we do not forget and call out if injustice is done. We have done so on many international issues and we found the Government of Canada a friend and a partner in this process. Over the last century Poland, has suffered human tragedy, death and destruction beyond any measure. For this reason we have to look with disdain upon those who, for reasons we refuse to consider, deny history, simplify the past and vilify the fallen.


Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz

Minister of Foreign Affairs Republic of Poland
http://www.polishembassy.ca/news_details.asp?nid=200

Letter to CRTC
July 29, 2004



Mr. Charles Dalfen, Chair
The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Ottawa, ON
K1A 0N2




Dear Mr. Dalfen,

As you may already know, on April 30, 2004, CTV referred in its news broadcast to the notorious nazi death camp in Treblinka as a "Polish camp".

Built by Hitler's administration in 1942 as one of six extermination camps for the purpose of "The Final Solution", Treblinka took the lives of some 800,000 Jews and Gypsies from Poland, Austria, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, Jugoslavia, Germany and the Soviet Union. During the 13 months of the camp's operation, the killing rate exceeded 2,000 people a day, making Treblinka the most deadly of all nazi death camps.

The term "Polish camp" is both historically inaccurate and highly defamatory to the Poles. No Pole was involved in any aspect of the Treblinka camp operations. While the village indeed lies in Eastern Poland, during WWII the entire country was under nazi occupation, with enormous suffering and loss of life exceeding 20% of total population.

Numerous protests by Polish and Jewish organizations in Canada have been lodged with Robert Hurst, President of CTV News, including the enclosed letter from Poland's ambassador in Ottawa. Mr. Hurst refuses to run a retraction. What is more, he insists on continuing to use the defamatory and hurtful terms "Polish camps", "Polish concentration camps" and "Polish death camps", as indicated in his letter of May 6, 2004, enclosed for your reference.

It is our belief that CTV's stance on this issue contradicts public interest of Canadians, is highly hurtful to the Polish community here, and, equally important, borders on Holocaust denial by removing the odium of atrocities from its true perpetrators, the nazis.

Our organization, founded in 1988, is dedicated to preserving the unique culture of Polish Jews and fosters better understanding between Poles and Jews in Canada. We take exception to CTV's practice and policy as demonstrated in Mr. Hurst's May 6 letter and ask that CRTC takes steps to ensure CTV refrains from using this defamatory, hurtful and historically untrue language.

Sincerely yours,

THE POLISH-JEWISH HERITAGE FOUNDATION OF CANADA



Peter Jassem, President

cc: Mr. Ivan Fecan, CEO, Bell Globemedia Inc.
Mr. Michael J. Sabia, CEO, BCE Inc.

Poland demands Ottawa censure CTV over 'insult'
Broadcaster refuses to apologize after calling Treblinka a 'Polish' camp


Mike Blanchfield
CanWest News Service

Wednesday, August 18, 2004

OTTAWA - Poland has asked the Canadian government to take action against broadcaster CTV for refusing to apologize to viewers for referring to a Nazi German concentration camp in Poland as a "Polish camp."

In a letter to be sent to the Foreign Affairs Department today, the Polish government asks the federal government "to take appropriate actions to ensure that the dignity of the Republic of Poland, the ally of Canada in NATO, and the Polish nation is not affected by the untrue and detrimental information spread in Canada by the media."

The letter doesn't specify what the government should do but suggests that "for the sake of good relations that have existed between our two countries" it might want to consider unspecified action through the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, which licenses broadcasters.

The letter is the latest salvo in an international dispute between the Polish government and the Canadian private broadcaster. It centres over wording in televised reports in November, 2003, and on April 30 about convicted Nazi war criminal John Demjanjuk, a guard at the Treblinka concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germans in occupied Poland during the Second World War.

The April 30 story referred to Demjanjuk being a guard at "the Polish camp of Treblinka."

Poland's ambassador to Canada, Pavel Dobrowolski, demanded an apology and a correction from CTV News president Robert Hurst in a May 6 letter.

"This choice of words is offensive to the Polish people and the government of Poland. The concentration camp in Treblinka was created by the Nazi Germans, who invaded and occupied Poland during the WWII," Mr. Dobrowolski wrote. "Therefore, to call the concentration camp in Treblinka 'the Polish camp of Treblinka' is an insult to millions of Poles who sacrificed their lives in the fight against Nazi Germany."

In a May 28 letter, Mr. Hurst declined to apologize, saying the wording was not meant to insult Poles and the context of the report made it clear the camp was run by Nazi Germans in occupied Poland.

"We sincerely regret that you were offended and that you feel that the usage of this term is insulting to the Polish nation and to Canada," Mr. Hurst wrote.

The reference, Mr. Hurst explained, was "to denote the location of the camps, not the country or the people responsible for the same."

Mr. Hurst wrote that although he understood the concerns "and believes in the use of precise language, we believe the term was again used in an appropriate fashion."

Mr. Hurst could not be reached for comment yesterday.

The Polish government is not satisfied with CTV's response and wants the government to intervene.

Polish Foreign Affairs Minister Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz is calling on CTV to issue a public apology, "in front of the same TV viewers who were exposed to this obvious insult that harmed not only the Poles of today, but the victims of the Holocaust as well."

Mr. Cimoszewicz said the exact words used in the report are important.

"It seems that the CTV executives are unaware that the only proper, internationally accepted and historians-verified term is 'the Nazi concentration camp in Germany-occupied Poland.' "

Demjanjuk, an 84-year-old retired autoworker, lost his U.S. citizenship bid in an Ohio appeal court in April. Demjanjuk is in ill health, but has not exhausted his last appeal avenue to the U.S. Supreme Court.

An Israeli court convicted him of war crimes and crimes against humanity for being a notorious gas chamber guard known as Ivan the Terrible. Demjanjuk has maintained he is the victim of mistaken identity.

Three days after Demjanjuk's court appearance, The Associated Press news service, which covered the news development, issued a clarification over how it referred to the Treblinka camp.

"The Associated Press referred to Poland's Treblinka death camp. The story should have specified that Poland was occupied by Nazi Germany in the Second World War, and that death camps in Polish territory were operated by the Germans," said a clarification issued on May 3 on the AP wire.

About 5.5 million Poles, including more than three million Polish Jews, died during the three-year Nazi occupation of Poland during the Second World War.

Six million Jews were systematically killed during the Holocaust.

(Ottawa Citizen)
http://www.pjhftoronto.ca/ctv1.html
Musashi, you are exactly right. What can you expect from a bunch of arrogant, leftist journalists seeking to advance their careers, sell newspapers and/or increase their sinking ratings? :shock: There is a saying among American television journalists which goes like this, "If it bleeds, it leads." There is constant pressure to publish something sensational. Among their other faults, many journalists not only play free and loose with the facts, but their spelling and grammar skills have slumped as of late. And let's not forget about the lousy record of The New York Times, in plagiarism and outright "manufacture" of "facts," recently! :evil: Certainly, any concentration camps in occupied Poland (during WWII) were established and operated by the German Nazi regime, specifically the SS. However, it must be admitted that there were a certain (undetermined) number of Nazi sympathisers among the Polish population at the time, as was true of every Nazi occupied nation. There were also large numbers of Nazi sympathisers in England, America, Canada and Sweden, which were not even occupied. There was quite enough guilt to go around. I wish we could all just put this in the past where it belongs. These were historical wrongs (injustices) and virtually no person alive in 2005 had anything to do with it. 8) Best Regards, Walter
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Post by Pirx »

Nothing new. When i was i UK in 1995 most brits i've meet thought that Poland means "North Pole" country :D ,
Almost all were sure that Germany and Russia have common border, and I as a Pole should speak russian, write in Russian, and dirnk vodka. That i'm a communist was sure. :D, and i have horse or donkey to travel.
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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi Musashi,

Your basic point is well made.

It is unlikely in the extreme that Michael Howard believed that members of his family were killed in Auschwitz by Poles. Nevertheless, it is right to correct such sloppy phraseology, especially in a world where increasingly the younger generation are unaware of the enormity of what happened in the extermination camps and can increasingly easily be misled.

It should not be beyond the wit of even tabloid journalists to write about "death camps in Nazi-occupied Poland" rather than "Polish death camps" or even "death camps in Nazi Poland".

Cheers,

Sid.
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Post by Musashi »

I have a Polish article where somebody found a publication about calling Stutthof "a Polish concentration camp" in spite of that it had been located in Eastern Prussia during WWII. I read in the same article a story about an American pilot who had been shot down over Germany and he claimed he had been imprisoned in "a Polish concentration camp" in... Berlin.
I am not sure if I should laugh or cry reading such a crap.
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Post by Musashi »

Walter Wulfsen wrote:Certainly, any concentration camps in occupied Poland (during WWII) were established and operated by the German Nazi regime, specifically the SS. However, it must be admitted that there were a certain (undetermined) number of Nazi sympathisers among the Polish population at the time, as was true of every Nazi occupied nation.
This number was very small and the reason was simple - Poles were considered "subhumans" by the Nazi Germans.
There was not a puppet govermnent which supported German Nazis as it was in the French Vichy or Norway (Quisling) or Hungary (Arrow-Cross organisation). Poles did not enlist in the SS like so did some Dutchmen, Belgians, Frenchmen, Latvians, Estonians, Finns, Norwegians or Croatians.
Ezekiel 25:17. "And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."
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Post by Ciaran Byrne »

You would want to see some of the school books that kids are being forced to read in England today. Many lay the blame squarely on the Pole which is absolutley ridicilous.
People don't realise that Poles were being murdered in Auschwitz long before Jews were being murdered. Birkenau was built for the sole purpose of extermination of Jews in 1942. It is a complete farce and I would go as far to say comical to suggest that Poles were active colaborators with the Germans in the extermination of Jews. In fact, from what I have read I would go as far to say that Jewish Kappos were perhaps the most ruthless in the pursuit and carrying out acts of crime against Jews.
I would surmise that there is some kind of ulterior motive behind the recent upsurge in association of Poles and their active participation in the Holocaust.
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Post by Walter Wulfsen »

Musashi wrote:
Walter Wulfsen wrote:Certainly, any concentration camps in occupied Poland (during WWII) were established and operated by the German Nazi regime, specifically the SS. However, it must be admitted that there were a certain (undetermined) number of Nazi sympathisers among the Polish population at the time, as was true of every Nazi occupied nation.
This number was very small and the reason was simple - Poles were considered "subhumans" by the Nazi Germans.
There was not a puppet govermnent which supported German Nazis as it was in the French Vichy or Norway (Quisling) or Hungary (Arrow-Cross organisation). Poles did not enlist in the SS like so did some Dutchmen, Belgians, Frenchmen, Latvians, Estonians, Finns, Norwegians or Croatians.
Musashi, I agree with you that the Vichy French, for example, were in a whole different class. Those numbskulls actively collaborated with the Nazi conquerors, joined the Waffen SS, deported their own citizens to Auschwitz, etc. Also, particularly repugnant and disgusting were the activities of the Judenratt. These were Jews who were traitors to their own race. They actively helped the S.S. round-up other Jews, even doing the dirty work of the S.S. guards in places like Auschwitz, Treblinka, Chelmno, Dachau, etc. :evil: Regards, Walter
Last edited by Walter Wulfsen on Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Hans »

Musashi,
SS Schutzen Div. Galizien was made up of Polish and Ukrainian volunteers.
I suppose the Poles were no different to anyone else, some supported this side, some the other and most just wanted to survive. There's no crime in that. My stepfather fought in the Polish army against the Russians and found himself exchanched to Germany. A brother of his joined the German Army and the eldest was a prisoner in Auswitch.

Nothing is clear cut.

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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi Ciaran,

Could you please specify which school books in England "lay the blame squarely on the Pole"? It seems unlikely in the extreme that this is the case, so I would appreciate some sourced examples.

Cheers,

Sid.
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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi Hans,

The 14th SS Galizien Division was made up almost exclusively of Ukrainians. There was a considerable thread on Feldgrau on this subject and almost no trace of ethnic Poles was found in the division, which is not suprising as it was recruited from Ukrainian nationalists. The confusion may lie in the fact that most of the division's Ukrainians had been (reluctant) Polish citizens before the war.

Cheers,

Sid.
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Post by Pirx »

Hans wrote:Musashi,
SS Schutzen Div. Galizien was made up of Polish and Ukrainian volunteers.
most of them was Ukrainians with polish citizienship. Poles were not welcome there.
I suppose the Poles were no different to anyone else, some supported this side, some the other and most just wanted to survive. There's no crime in that. Nothing is clear cut.
- Hans
Yes Poles were no different. But support for enemy during war was crime in Poland. And i think too that traitors and cowards shall be punished.[/quote]
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Post by Howard »

Good post Musashi :D

@Pirx

Where were you in the UK where everyone was so ignorant....? I think Poles do drink vodka though, don't they? :wink:

I have to say that I was shocked to hear from my mother last week that my cousin, who is 32 and has supposedly been to university, wanted to know what all the fuss was about some place called Auschwitz that she'd never heard of :oops:

13 years at school and 4 at uni and somehow she missed this. Incredible :!:
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Post by Pirx »

Hi Howard.
Yes, Poles drink vodka, but from years we prefer beer.
Israel each year send boys and girls to Auschwitz to saw this terrible place. Why other countries don't do that?
For few years, boys and girls from Israel can also see old jewish district in Krakow called "Kazimierz". They can see not only death in Auschwitz, but also life in Kazimierz - jewish restaurants, theatres, museums. It's great, becouse they must understand, that victims was also poeple.

"Kazimierz" is a part of town established in 1345 by polish king Casimir IIIrd The Great. He let settled in Kazimierz jews from all over europe, and give him privilege to keep religion, language and law.
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Post by Hans »

Pirx,

Supporting the enemy was/is a crime everywhere. Anyway I for one apologise what was done to Poland and the Poles by Germany. But let us not forget that Poland was also invaded by the Russians. My stepfather as I said, found himself fighting the Russians. When I made enquiries re his medal entitlements in the late '90s I was advised that there were no medals for Poles who fought the Russians only Germans. I went straight to the President, and father was decorated and promoted to officer rank in 2000. Pity though, he was dead by then.

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