Will the "Bad" Germans ever forgive the Allies

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Paul
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Will the "Bad" Germans ever forgive the Allies

Post by Paul » Mon May 24, 2004 12:38 am

(1) Will the "Bad" Germans ever forgive the Allies?

Bad Germans = the ones which are still alive today,and there children,grand children who believed in the Nazi regime.


Good Germans = the ones which hate the nazis or realize that the nazis were evil, Criminal

(2) Will the Good Germans finally convince the Bad Germans that they were wrong?

(3) or will the Bad Germans in generations to come convince the Good Germans that they were the Good guys?


I think these are interesting questions as the "will power" of Germans seems very strong thoughout history.................but if the Bad Germans battle against the Good Germans who will win in future generations, assuming that there are many more "Good" Germans than Bad?

all coments welcome

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Re: Will the "Bad" Germans ever forgive the Allies

Post by Brian67 » Mon May 24, 2004 8:04 am

Paul wrote:(1) Will the "Bad" Germans ever forgive the Allies?

(2) Will the Good Germans finally convince the Bad Germans that they were wrong?

(3) or will the Bad Germans in generations to come convince the Good Germans that they were the Good guys?


I think these are interesting questions as the "will power" of Germans seems very strong thoughout history.................but if the Bad Germans battle against the Good Germans who will win in future generations, assuming that there are many more "Good" Germans than Bad?

all coments welcome
Hi Paul
I don't understand the intention of your question. I think you know nothing about Germany at all.
Who are and where are the "Bad Germans" you are talking about??
The most Germans know that it was good, that the Nazis was defeated and Germany now is a democracy. Also they are happy about prosperity.
But nowadays the critic against the United States is bigger then before. The reason for this developement isn't that the "Bad Germans" convince the others, but the politic of Bush-administration and the conviction, that tortour and military force is no solution against terrorism and no solution to get the oil you need (or think you need it).
The questions
(2) and (3) are really sillyand stupid!! There is no fight between "Good Germans" and "Bad Germans" at all. And really Nazis, I think are less then 5 % in Germany, perhaps much lesser !
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Post by DeBaer » Mon May 24, 2004 9:18 am

i quite agree with Brian.
the question "nazi-not a nazi" is hardly a topic in the usual life of a normal german. sometimes you have right-winged extremists beating left-winged extremists and vice versa. but you find this in any country, and those neo-nazis are no real nazis, they more likely want to shock people, i think. a nation wont do the same bad mistake twice. im pretty sure there wont be a new rising of nationalsocialism in germany.
as to good and bad, if youre bad youre good, and the other are bad..you know it.
the ones believing hitler was good may have their opinion, as long as they are no harm to others, and dont try to manipulate others...
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Post by Reb » Mon May 24, 2004 12:54 pm

I find it kind of silly to characterize people in generalities. Americans are hearing are a lot of now and have ourselves been guilty of it as well.

Last I hear WW2 ended six decades ago. Was every German who fought for his country 'bad?' Was every allied soldier 'good?' Hmmm I wonder.

Now we have the question: are all Americans 'bad' because some thug like morons abused prisoners in Iraq? Are all Germans 'good' because most have had enough sense to oppose the war in Iraq?

like I say, generalizations make for bad history.

Reb

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Post by Stefan » Mon May 24, 2004 2:57 pm

Brian, Bär: antwortet doch gar nicht auf solche Kindereien. :?

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Post by Brian67 » Mon May 24, 2004 3:00 pm

Reb wrote:I find it kind of silly to characterize people in generalities. Americans are hearing are a lot of now and have ourselves been guilty of it as well.

Now we have the question: are all Americans 'bad' because some thug like morons abused prisoners in Iraq? Are all Germans 'good' because most have had enough sense to oppose the war in Iraq?
Hi Reb. I think you are right. And if you are meaning me with "generalization" of Americans I want to add, that I critisized "the politic of Bush-administration" and not the Americans in general. If you don't mean me, we are close together with our opinions, I think.
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Post by Reb » Mon May 24, 2004 3:07 pm

Brian

No - I'm sorry if it appeared I was pointing that comment at you. I was simply, well, making a generalization! :wink:

cheers
Reb

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Generalizations ....

Post by FanOfGermanMilitaryMight » Mon May 24, 2004 10:47 pm

Let us not forget that Bush was democratically elected. In the American system, democratically elected means having the majority of votes in the electoral college, which he did. Now let's take a quick look at Germany. Suffice it to say that an idiot like Bush would never have made it into politics in Germany. Germans are too sensible to allow such nonsense to take form, let alone propagate itself at a national level. Generalizations are only popular because they work. How about the following. Dark skinned people can stay out in the sun longer than light skinned people. Bit of a generalization, in't?
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern" General Heinz Guderian

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Oh and before I forget ....

Post by FanOfGermanMilitaryMight » Mon May 24, 2004 10:48 pm

If German soldiers were in Iraq, would they be behaving like the Americans? One other thing, what atrocities have the Spanish and the Italians committed in Iraq?
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern" General Heinz Guderian

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Post by mikerock » Mon May 24, 2004 11:02 pm

The edit button allows you to modify posts you've already made.

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Re: Generalizations ....

Post by Brian67 » Mon May 24, 2004 11:34 pm

FanOfGermanMilitaryMight wrote:Suffice it to say that an idiot like Bush would never have made it into politics in Germany. Germans are too sensible to allow such nonsense to take form, let alone propagate itself at a national level.
Are you sure?
I'm German and I hope you are right :wink: , but I'm not sure at all :? .
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Post by DeBaer » Tue May 25, 2004 6:02 am

@Stefan:
Hatte ich auch erst nicht vor, allerdings wollte ich dann Brian's Aussage bekräftigen, außerdem irgendwer muss Paul ja aufklären, falls diese Frage wirklich ernst gemeint war.
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Post by Reb » Tue May 25, 2004 6:45 am

Political folly is hardly restricted to any particular country! But then, I'm basing that statement on history rather than bile.

Reb

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Post by Brian67 » Tue May 25, 2004 8:42 am

DeBaer wrote: Irgendwer muss Paul ja aufklären, falls diese Frage wirklich ernst gemeint war.
Ich habe auch erst überlegt ob ich es einfach übergehe, aber so einen Schwachsinn ohne Erwiederung stehen zu lassen, das konnte ich dann doch nicht.
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Post by Paul » Wed May 26, 2004 12:52 am

Hi Brian67,DeBaer,Reb and Fan of German military Might

Thank you all for your comments.


Brian67 – The Intention of my question is to understand what the Germans (good and bad are thinking)


First of all let me clarify Good / Bad a little better…………..I have used these terms for the question to remain politically correct…………

To the politically correct a Nazi is bad and what a Nazi stood for is bad ……….generally most PC people are biased……………..I would be surprised if they would have any understanding of the time period (except what is told in the PC media, or PC books) nor the true motivations behind the Nazis………………I hate saying it, because its said so much……….but the winner always rights the history.

Now I don’t think a true Nazi (and I am not talking about stupid Neo Nazis) actually thinks he is bad or thinks what the Nazis did was bad, you certainly would not see many talk about it openly even today…………

I must totally disagree with you that most Germans know that it was good to defeat the Nazis………………maybe you can give me source for the information, or give me some rational for that statement, although its getting totally away from my original questions, if you care to give some source or rational reasons for such a statement, then I would be happy to debate it further with you.

Yes Germany is a Democracy , that is it is “Mob Rule” where 51% control 49%.............and the 51% are convinced by the elite who control the media…………….go read what the Nazis policy was as to who was allowed to own the media…………and go read what the Nazis said about the definition of Britain so called Democracy………………………its all there in black and white……….all historical documents are on line with most translated into English if you want.

You may not think there is a fight between good/bad Germans , but do you think you will read about it………..its not a physical fight…………………Why do you think Stalin and Roosevelt wanted all German officers killed ? Please think about it.

Its no different to Chechnya people………they still seek revenge from stuff 100years or more old, they remember because stuff is passed on from generation to generation……….

As for you thinking there’s less that 5% Nazis in Germany…………come on be serious, Hitler was voted into power with no more or less manipulation of the people as bush got in.
Do you think Nazi thinking people are going to put there hands up and be counted? Or are you counting 5% as the neo-Nazi type.

Debaer and Reb- See above and see if you would like to comment……….thanks



I hope I don’t have to continue to debate too much about what Good and bad Germans are , or if they even exist……………………Have a read about the Allies attempt after the war at De Nazify the population, what a joke ! If they were serious about getting rid of Nazis then Churchill should of agreed with Stalin and Roosevelt in killing all the German officers…………maybe there entire families too, cause soon or later they will go for revenge………….and that’s what my questions about………….what will the children and children’s of the Nazis do in the future? I think it would be UN rational to think they are all happy……………I could ask the same apply the same questions for the Japanese………..what’s going on with these people, will they seek revenge upon us………………or should we think that most Japanese know what there fathers did was wrong………….as if!



I look forward to your comments, but please refrain from abusive debate

I thank you all for your comments so far.

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