Will the "Bad" Germans ever forgive the Allies

[DeBaer]

"I must totally disagree with you that most Germans know that it was good to defeat the Nazis………………maybe you can give me source for the information"

now that was a good laugh.
see my location.
ask my schoolmates, ask my friends, ask the ones that dont like me, ask my parents, ask my parents' friends, ask my neigbours...
but anyway, have fun with your black and white world, your generalizations, and your great sources.

Wieso tauchen hier auf einmal so viele auf, die 'nen Rad ab haben?

[Reb]

Shooting all the German officers to cure 'em of naziism sounds a little exteme - so to destroy the nazis we become nazis? I hope I'm misinterpreting your post!

It was bad enough to fight beside a dubious ally like communist Russia whose crimes far exceeded the nazis (if one is considering mere numbers) but actually to become nazis ourselves - I don't see how that fixes the percieved problem.

I trace the cultural decline of the western democracies back to our own actions in WW2. For real or imagined reasons we became too much like our enemies. To shoot large numbers of prisoners would hardly make the situation better - quite the contrary. After all, wasn't organized murder what made the nazis so unpalatable?

Most people everywhere 'go along to get along.' The average German had about as much say in his govt's actions as I do in the actions of my govt. I am outraged by my own country's actions in Iraq - yet I have scant desire to shoot all our officers!

I got an email from my brother in law last night detailing what we should do to those 'damned rag heads' and how Abu Grahid Prison is hardly an atrocity when compared to 911 or Nick Berg's murder. I'm still shocked as I think of it. Yet this is a very nice man who although quite well off will travel hundreds of miles to help a friend put in his plumbing.

Shall I shoot him?

Thoughtfully
Reb

[Brian67]

I must totally disagree with you that most Germans know that it was good to defeat the Nazis………………maybe you can give me source for the information, or give me some rational for that statement, although its getting totally away from my original questions, if you care to give some source or rational reasons for such a statement, then I would be happy to debate it further with you.

Fine, that you have to disagree. How do you know about the situation in Germany? What are YOUR SORCES?
I don't need sorces. I'm German, my wife and my son are German, my parents, brothers, aunts, uncles, cousins, a lot of my friends are German.
I DON'T NEED A SOURCE TO KNOW WHAT (okay: a lot of) GERMANS THINK!

Wieso tauchen hier auf einmal so viele auf, die 'nen Rad ab haben?

Gute Frage. Ich weiss es auch nicht. Da muss irgendwo ein Nest sein

[Reb]

Now Brian - you just THINK you know what Germans think!

Just writing that sentence made me feel confused...

Reb

[Deiter Hollenstein]

It's rather like dealing with FOG. You don't know what you think...he does and he's more than happy to tell you.

[Brian67]

It's rather like dealing with FOG. You don't know what you think...he does and he's more than happy to tell you.

??

[Brian67]

Now Brian - you just THINK you know what Germans think!

Just writing that sentence made me feel confused...

Reb

Okay, wir machen's philosophisch. Ich weiss, dass ich nichts weiss, aber auch, dass du nichts weisst. (frei nach Sokrates)

[Reb]

Brian

If you really want to get philosophical - how about "I think therefore I am?"

(I wish my German was as good as your English - thank goodness for Babblefish)

cheers
Reb

[Brian67]

(I wish my German was as good as your English - thank goodness for Babblefish)

Hi Reb
I'm not really sure how you mean this sentence (my English was much better years ago), but if I make mistakes I'm happy about a correction (for the forum I think it's better as PM ). It's never to late to learn!

[Reb]

I just meant I stuck your sentence in a translator because I'm too
dumb to read German unaided!

Reb

[FanOfGermanMilitaryMight]

Again, many Americans fall for the 'mob rule' theory regarding democracy. However, look up a dictionary and you will find that it is democracy that is expected to protect the minorities and not 'Republics' which are merely 'representative' governments, where the people who are represented happen to be those who are powerful enough to ensure they are represented.

In German democracy, EVERYONE has a say and a vote and no-one is diminished by the silliness of monetary politics or special interest lobbies.

Blacks in America will testify to the fact that even today it is America's Republic that is guilty of mob rule, not Germany's democracy. Even the constitution of the USA has failed to protect blacks.

The only thing that works is pure democracy and the Germans have it down almost perfectly. Unfortunately, Americans and Brits are loathe to taking their lessons from Germans, they just buy their cars, so we will continue to see the Anglo-Saxon model of 'democracy' flounder around in all it's stupidity.

[FanOfGermanMilitaryMight]

Political folly is indeed hardly restricted to one country. But in the civilized and developed world, American folly is unparalleled, that is if we consider America to be civilized. Charles de Gaulle certainly didn't .... To Brian: You're right of course, one can't be sure, but based on the past fifty years of free Germany, I think it is fair to say that German politicians have represented wisdom and reason in politics far better than their American/British counterparts.

[FanOfGermanMilitaryMight]

We may not be on the same side, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize you're smart. But then you sound German, so being smart probably comes naturally ....

It seems you have noted my tendency to assume that I know what other people are thinking. I am indeed guilty of this, indeed my Dad continues to complain about this aspect of me, but I still believe that it is possible to know what other people are thinking without waiting for them to say it out loud.

As they say, actions speak louder than words, and one must 'read between the lines'.

As to the outrageous nature of my assumptions, I'll cop the following excuse. I'm Indian, Christian, but Indian all the same. Indian culture is repressed, and if you can't figure out what people are saying without waiting for them to say it out loud, then chances are you're going to end up in a bit of trouble every now and then.

So again, I do take a great deal of liberty in assuming what other people are 'saying', but I would argue that it is nowhere near as ludicrous a practice as one might initially be led to believe. We don't need to read Mein Kampf to know what Hitler thought of the Jews ....

[sid guttridge]

Hi FOGMM,

I am gratified you think so highly of the democratic system the Anglo-Americans bequeathed Germany half a century ago.

But at the end of the day, however benign Anglo-American input, the fact that Germany has been such a sound democracy these last fifty years is down to the qualities of the Germans themselves.

Luckily Germany, France, the UK and USA share core values today. Our differences are minor compared to the not-so-distant historic past. Long may it remain so.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Paul]

Debaer and Brian67

Thankyou for your coments ..............I will have to agree to disagree with you.

I think its very shallow of you both to think its fair to judge what Germany as a whole think based on your personal perceptions from people around you in your personal lives.

Try thinking outside the square...........

Both of you show typical German arrogance in the end of your posts, typical with respect to Germans which have this arrogance, theres many Germans which dont have this rudeness.

And Brian - I dont have any "sources" because this sort of infomation is completely unobtainable, and as if people would tell the truth anyway !!
I am sure that I could find the same amout of Germans that would completly disagree against the ones you know.....................just because your German does not mean your right.


Reb- Thankyou for your coment, It is a fact that the Russians and Americans were considering the slaughter of German officers, and even though luckly it didnt happen on a wide scale, some officers did die.

I am not really sure what you meant by "to destroy the nazis we become nazis" I dont ever remember the Nazis killing American,British or Russian soilders on mass, although the Russians tryed to pin the killing of polish officers on them, which later proved a lie by the russians.


The Nazis were made up of alot of willing followers, and alot of the follows committed no crime at all, for I dont think they had the idea they were comitting any crime -

Yes the average German may not of had much say, but the average German did agree with much of the stuff that the Nazis were marketing to them early on..............employment etc


Nick Bergs murder is suppose to shock you and other americans, so that to make you feel better about the shocking treatment of prisoners..........Some newspapers are suggesting that Nick was already dead before he had his head cut off, as there is evidace of some video editing, barely any blood etc