EU and US vote against SS motion

Jez · Post by **Jez** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:44 pm

EU and US vote against SS motion. The Times breaking news, 9.42pm 16th April 2004

The top UN human rights watchdog has denounced modern day glorification of the Nazi-era Waffen SS but the EU and US voted against the move. In a 36-13 vote, the UN Human Rights Commission in Geneva backed a Russian resolution expressing deep concern over the building of memorials to the military section of the dreaded Nazi Schutzstaffel. Such monuments "do injustice" to the Nazis' victims, "poison the minds of young people" and fuel modern-day extremist groups, the motion said.

Should we have memorials to these Waffen SS fighters?

Comments please guys.

Regards, Jez.

derGespenst · Post by **derGespenst** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:33 pm

And I suppose memorials to Robert E. Lee's Texas Brigade inspire young people to keep slaves.

The Waffen SS provided Germany with some of her finest soldiers. In the end, they fought for the same thing as everyone else - to protect their homeland. That should not go unrecognized.

M.Wittmann · Post by **M.Wittmann** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:44 am

derGespenst wrote:The Waffen SS provided Germany with some of her finest soldiers. In the end, they fought for the same thing as everyone else - to protect their homeland. That should not go unrecognized.

I agree, if not fighting for Germany, at least they were fighting for their comrades and of course relatives.

Brian67 · Post by **Brian67** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:53 am

I think we don't need memorials for Waffen-SS soldiers.
But the vote from USA and EU against the motion wasn't made because of the question itself, I think, but because of political reasons. On the other hand Russia and China weren't denounced in the case of Tschetschenia and the human rights.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:04 am

I think, one has to be rather specific, e.g. to commemorate Hausser is ok, Dirlewanger certainly not.

Regards

Danny

Das Reich · Post by **Das Reich** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:19 am

You can't let the memories of such fine soldiers fade into history... I would like to think they died for a reason...

DeBaer · Post by **DeBaer** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:59 am

well, as long as places like this forum here exist the memories of those soldiers wont fade.

i dont know whether we need SS memorials. there were brave soldiers in it's lines, but there were also real ideologic extremists, and it belonged to the party. i'd rather see (more) memorials for the regular wehrmacht (heer, luftwaffe, marine). it was quite unpolitical, and did the major part of the fighting. my whole life here (im only 16

) i havent seen one memorial for the german armed forces of WW2. SS memorials would look very strange, if being placed close to the coming holocaust memorial in Berlin. but with all those holocaust memorials (hell, even our small city has one) one would think that only jews died in the war.

oh and one can say that to the end of the war, german soldiers only fought to protect their homeland, there were no real offensive actions anymore.

Freiritter · Post by **Freiritter** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:49 am

I think that DeBaer had struck the nail on the head. The problem with memorials for the Waffen-SS is that you can't separate the Nazis from the Waffen-SS. True, there were very good Waffen-SS soldiers that had served. But, the Waffen-SS was a part of the larger SS organization, an organization whose purpose and creed was that of an enforcer group at the disposal of Himmler and Hitler, among other things. I for one wouldn't mind seeing memorials to the Wehrmacht. Perhaps a memorial for the Wehrmacht soldiers who died?

Cordially,

Freiritter

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:46 pm

This was a superfluous resolution aimed at Latvia and instigated by Russia to disturb the accession of the Baltic states to the EU and NATO. There have definitely been no new memorials to the Waffen-SS in Western Europe over the last 10 or 20 years, and there is certainly no need of them. But some people in the former Soviet bloc took the opportunity to express their sorrow for former family members or comrades for whom they were not allowed to grieve during the cold war. I don't see why the Latvian SS needs special memorials, but if they get some, this won't endanger the foundation of the Latvian state and it's democracy. If Russia is concerned about human rights, they should stop their brutal war in Chetchenia (a war that, by the way, is enthusiastically praised by the government of George Bush). The UN is not the right forum for such silly bilateral tit-for-tat disputes.

Kriegspieler1672 · Post by **Kriegspieler1672** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:38 pm

While there were some Waffen SS who commited war crimes, the same can be said of almost any armed force in history. They are after all made up of human beings. But many of them were no more than brave men fighting to defend their homeland, so they deserve to be honored as such. Just my 2 cents.

Herr Doktor · Post by **Herr Doktor** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:22 am

Just defending their homeland?? Some of you make it sound like Hitler and Nazi Germany never even started the war in the first place.

HD

DeBaer · Post by **DeBaer** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:42 am

listen closely mister doctor, sir...
to the end of the war, means something like when they fought in frankfurt, remagen, aachen, düsseldorf, what do i know. noone here will say "no, germany didnt start the war", but you must see that in 1944 and 45 german soldiers hardly died because they wanted to defeat the allied and russian troops, most did not believe in something like an "endsieg".even these days germans werent brainless killing machines (not the majority). at least in the east they fought e.g. to give their families, and other germans more time for moving west.

Kriegspieler1672 · Post by **Kriegspieler1672** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:42 pm

I will not dispute that Hitler started the war, however this is about a memorial to brave men who fought to save what they could of their country and countrymen. As I noted their were Waffen SS who commited atrocities, just as every side did. But I feel the courage of these men many of whom knew they were doomed to God knows what from the Russians, fighting so their womenfolk and children might have the chance to escape deserves to be remembered and honored.

Das Reich · Post by **Das Reich** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:51 pm

Many veterans accounts have said that they kept fighting so that they could prevent their homeland from getting raped. I mean, idologically, Germans at that time tended to want to exist as a cohesive unit with power over itself, and when that was threatened at the end of the war, they wanted to at least maintain Germany in the state it was. They were not fighting, nor did any German want, to expand their territories into non-German lands. They wanted to be Germany and most were content with that, which is why the continued to fight, so their homeland would not be proverbially and literally raped.

Herr Doktor · Post by **Herr Doktor** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:31 am

It seems to me that some of you are taking history out of context. You want to focus on the "heroic" struggles of the Waffen SS defense of the Fatherland late in the war, while ignoring the other things this organization was responsible for. And as for atrocities, one of you points out that "every side did it," as if this somehow makes irrelevant what the Waffen SS did and represented, etc.

Not every side did what the Waffen SS did. You people know that...

If you truly believe the arguments you've been making then you are fooling yourselves.

HD