Hajj Amin al-Husseini

[croat]

Hi,

I think Lepre write in his book that 'Handschar' also operated in Croatia proper before they across to Bosnia, i.e. Bosut area. According the war documents there were incidents during the division stay in that area, where Serbian civilians were massacred in a village at the area (Bela Crkva). The partisan and some historians accused the Handschar as the perperators. Lepre himself, while didn't agree with the accusation, couldn't aside it.
In his book Lepre also give some indications that there are conflicts of interest between the Catholic and Muslim members in the division, especially because the Muslim want to made the division as a tool for a Bosnia-Hercegovina protectorate under the Nazi. So, their aims were against the unity of the NDH.

Regards,
Nino

I believe Mr. Lepre best addressed the alleged massacre, so I will not belabor the point. I would just like to note for the record that Bela Crkva is NOT in "Croatia proper", but is actually in northern Serbia, province of Vojvodina.

Certainly, some of the Muslim members of the "Handschar" were Bosnian autonomists, but many others came from the Croatian Domobranstvo, or even the Ustase. Even the autonomists were never in open conflict with the NDH government, and definitely had no quarrel with Catholic members of the division.

I agree 100% with the latest information that Mr. Dejan has posted, which is a refreshing step away from his usual claims that 'all Croats were Fascists' etc. SOME Croatians committed some very evil things during WW2, but the great majority did NOT; some Croats supported the Nazis, a great majority did NOT. Many, many Croats fought against the Ustase and the Germans. I am glad we can finally all agree on this.

[nino]

Dear Croat,

Thank U for your info. Forgive me if I wrong about the name of the place
And believe me, I never said every Croats as Ustasa or Fascist. In fact, during WW II, majority of Croats choose Peasant Party....

Regards,
Nino


Bless the people who ready to forgive

[croat]

Dear Croat,

Thank U for your info. Forgive me if I wrong about the name of the place
And believe me, I never said every Croats as Ustasa or Fascist. In fact, during WW II, majority of Croats choose Peasant Party....

Regards,
Nino


Bless the people who ready to forgive

Hello Nino:

Even after a quick review of the topics within this Forum pertaining in any way to Croatians and/or Bosnians and/or Serbs, it will quickly become aparent that Mr. Dejan and myself have had our differences. I am in no way a supporter of the NDH, Fascism, or the Ustase, I think that the period of 1941-1945 was the single darkest episode in Croatia's entire history. I am embarassed about the things that were done by some, supposedly in the name of Croatia and Croatians. However, as we have discussed in this thread, it was only a small minority of Croatian extremists that committed crimes during the war, while many Croatians fought honourably for what they believed was the independence of their state or a war against Communism. Many, many more Croatians fought against the NDH, because it was neither independent, nor a true state, nor Croatian in anything but name. Certainly, the Republic of Croatia today has nothing in common whatsoever with the vile WW2 creation. My beef with Mr. Dejan was that he, in my opinion, used inflated numbers of victims of the Ustase, equated all Croats with Fascism and hatred of the Serbs, openly negated Croatia's contribution to the fight against Fascism, and tried to draw parallels between the NDH and today's Republic which were outright falsehoods.

I am always for open dialogue from as objective a standpoint as possible when dealing with issues that are as close to the heart as wars in the Balkans and vicinity can be. I would appreciate a continuation of friendly dialogue with historic research and (as close as possible to) the truth being the ultimate goal, and not political statements and empty propaganda. I hope that Dejan's latest posting is an indication that more objective discussions are ahead?

Regards from Canada.

[Dejan]

entry

[croat]

I think it is common courtesy, if not a legal copyright requirement, to credit the actual authors of a text rather than simply posting it under one's own name. The above text by Dejan is copied from:

http://focusonjerusalem.com/arabmuslimn ... ction.html

[Handzar]

This is concerning the problems with Croat recruits of 13.SS-Handschar.

In Himmler's Bosnian Division by George Lepre, it is evident just how many of the 2.800 Croats deserted in the first few months.
The Croat desertions were 5 to 1 when compared to the Bosnian/VolksDeutsche desertions.

Other than that , I dont think there were further problems.

[Helmut Von Moltke]

hmmm, I think that this thread should be about the Grand Mufti Haj Amin, not about the units he created. I think starting some debate on his complicities in war crimes could be intresting, etc. When I first did research on the Mufti, more than half of the sources were some zionist propaganda sites, which said that his units were all mass murderers, that he visited Auschwitz, he wanted to aid the holocuast, he sent 500 kids to death camps, etc. But, with doing some research on Feldgrau (thanks to Sid Guttridge), it seems that although Haj Amin was a hard anti semite, he probably could not visit Auschwitz since of course, high ranking foreigners were probably disguised from all that, plus the 500 Jewish children that Himmler was preparing to exchange with the Allies, the propaganda sites claim that he instead sent them to death camps. He probably didn't have the authority, he was not an Allgemeine SS official, etc, and he didn't want the exchange, because the 500 Jews would be going to Palestine, which he of course wouldn't like, not out of wanting to kill them, etc. And, with his units, most of the Handschar were not the mass murderers that propaganda tries to portray them as, if someone does some serious research on Handschar. But please gentlemad, do not take me as an anti semite, etc defending the Mufti. Lets hope that this post will get the thread going....

helmut

[Handzar]

Well, only if you will see him as a Nazi Sunni Muslim.
Actually , he was among the few in the begining that said that jews were the worst enemies of the Muslims. It says that in the Kuran.

One German officer who was not as radical of a Nazi as the Mufti said that he would enjoy the sight in Auschwitz.

[Volgadon]

My overall impression is that the Nazi high command didn't quite trust Haj Amin. They particularly distrusted his scheme for a pan-Arab league and an Arab legion. Italy, who had colonies in North Africa, was dead-set against that, as well as Turkey.
I haven't seen any evidence that the Mufti visited Auschwitz, none of my books in Hebrew mention it, but in 1943 he did encourage the Rumanian and Hungarian goverments to send their Jews to Poland, IE to the camps, instead of allowing them to emigrate.
The Mufti's reputation in the Arab world suffered a setback, because he backed the wrong horse!!

[MarmiteMan]

A few years out of date, but only happened upon this thread a few days ago!

Concerning post by croat on Thu Nov 27, 2003

I believe Mr. Lepre best addressed the alleged massacre, so I will not belabor the point. I would just like to note for the record that Bela Crkva is NOT in "Croatia proper", but is actually in northern Serbia, province of Vojvodina.

Towns/villages called Bela Crkva (Ger: Weißkirchen) are, although perhaps not numerous, certainly not rare, being one of those descriptive names like Newton (i.e. new town). FYR's best-known 'Bela Crkva is, indeed, in the southwest corner of Vojvodina, famed for its white church (actually, it's a cathedral) and featured in Claudio Magris' 'sense of place' book Danubio (1986), and I'm pretty sure there are Bela Crkvas throughout all the south Slav lands.