Hi to all.
I'm writing an annual work in order to fulfil the examination requirements of one of my subjects. It's draft topic is: "Against Russia, Against Poland - Belarussian, Ukrainian and Russian volunteers in WWII German Army". Schwerpoint of this work is put onto national identity of soldiers and their motivations.
I'd like to ask you whether you know and g o o d sources in the internet (I'd rather doubt if I could get any books you'd suggest) - except Feldgrau, ofkorz - that might have been helpful for me. I think, I'll focus on Kamiński's Brigade, Vlassov's ROA and Ukrainian Polizei units during Warsaw Raising.
Pozdrawiam, TPMM
Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
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Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
Don't worry, be crazy ;]
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
Hi TPMM,
Some sources I could think off (mostly Axis Europa Books)
Russian volunteers in the Wehrmacht by Wladyslaw Anders
There is a Cossack book by Peter J. Huxley-Blythe
Druzhina SS-Brigade by Antonio J. Munoz
If you read German, probably it would be good to start with a bunch of books about soviet volunteers in the Wehrmacht by the late Professor Joachim Hoffmann. I don't think you can get them anymore but probably a library would have a set of it
Rgrds
Panzermahn
Some sources I could think off (mostly Axis Europa Books)
Russian volunteers in the Wehrmacht by Wladyslaw Anders
There is a Cossack book by Peter J. Huxley-Blythe
Druzhina SS-Brigade by Antonio J. Munoz
If you read German, probably it would be good to start with a bunch of books about soviet volunteers in the Wehrmacht by the late Professor Joachim Hoffmann. I don't think you can get them anymore but probably a library would have a set of it
Rgrds
Panzermahn
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
There is a site in Russia that put Joachim Hoffman's book about Vlasov Army in internet. Unfortunately, only in Russian. But if I remember, no infos about they intention against Poland. Only against Stalin regime.
There are also some e-books in Russian and Polish languages about Russian volunteers in rapidshare....I think the title of the Polish book is Wlasowa Armija. Many of its publisher books also exist in the site like "Heimwehr Danzig", "Waffen-SS", etc.
There are also some e-books in Russian and Polish languages about Russian volunteers in rapidshare....I think the title of the Polish book is Wlasowa Armija. Many of its publisher books also exist in the site like "Heimwehr Danzig", "Waffen-SS", etc.
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
Thanks!
I have to admit to having used - among other sources - Chris Bishop's book on foreign SS-units, but he tends to write about the "citizens of USSR" all the time, without any differing (maybe but for Cossacks).
Another question:
WWS ROA - Air arm of Vlassov's forces. I how possible is that any of it's pilots was a pre-war pilot of Ukrainian or Belarusian origin? Cause there were no newly trained pilots there, only surrendered ones, trained by Red Air Force.
Third question: is a word "Belarusian" grammatically correct, while trying to create an adjective out of "Belarus"?
I have to admit to having used - among other sources - Chris Bishop's book on foreign SS-units, but he tends to write about the "citizens of USSR" all the time, without any differing (maybe but for Cossacks).
Another question:
WWS ROA - Air arm of Vlassov's forces. I how possible is that any of it's pilots was a pre-war pilot of Ukrainian or Belarusian origin? Cause there were no newly trained pilots there, only surrendered ones, trained by Red Air Force.
Third question: is a word "Belarusian" grammatically correct, while trying to create an adjective out of "Belarus"?
Don't worry, be crazy ;]
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
You could find story of Kaminski in Warsaw at http://stosstruppen39-45.tripod.com/id6.html
Sometime ago, there was a site sponsor for Feldgrau that put Christopher Ailsby's "Hitler's Renegades" book in theirs site. There is a chapter about Soviet Union volunteers. Askold site about Ukrainian volunteers maybe have some sight about Ukrainian-Polish rivalry. After all, theirs SS unit named "Galicia", a pre-war province of Poland ...
I doubt Vlasov ROA participation in German side during Warsaw Uprising.
Sometime ago, there was a site sponsor for Feldgrau that put Christopher Ailsby's "Hitler's Renegades" book in theirs site. There is a chapter about Soviet Union volunteers. Askold site about Ukrainian volunteers maybe have some sight about Ukrainian-Polish rivalry. After all, theirs SS unit named "Galicia", a pre-war province of Poland ...
I doubt Vlasov ROA participation in German side during Warsaw Uprising.
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
Well. I did some research (Thanks for your help!) and...
Hm. Te case of SS-Galizien and ROA in Warsaw Rising are more than complicated, Nino :]
For example: Germans seemed not to want to make SS-Galizien an "Ukrainian" unit, but rather a "Galizisch" - soldiers of this were forbidden to use Ukrainian language.
Hm. Te case of SS-Galizien and ROA in Warsaw Rising are more than complicated, Nino :]
For example: Germans seemed not to want to make SS-Galizien an "Ukrainian" unit, but rather a "Galizisch" - soldiers of this were forbidden to use Ukrainian language.
Don't worry, be crazy ;]
Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
I think your draft topic should be against Communism not against Russia and certainly not against Poland. There were many reasons why people fought on the German side. Some people like Kaminsky and his bunch were mercenaries others were hoping to get some sort of independence for their countries some hated Communists and Jews and Vlasov hoped to launch an anti Communist crusade to free Russia.
No Vlasov units fought at Warsaw for the very good reason that at the time of the uprising he commanded no troops except possibly the guards outside his house. Himmler gave him permission to form an army (KNOR) on September 16 1944.
Be wary of eastern European sites on Vlasov as they often just repeat Communist anti Vlasov propaganda.
No Vlasov units fought at Warsaw for the very good reason that at the time of the uprising he commanded no troops except possibly the guards outside his house. Himmler gave him permission to form an army (KNOR) on September 16 1944.
Be wary of eastern European sites on Vlasov as they often just repeat Communist anti Vlasov propaganda.
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
I am not so sure that Belorussians or Ukrainians were any more thrilled to be under Polish rule than those under Soviet rule. I do not have any great knowledge on this subject but it has been my impression from reading that being of a non-Polish ethnicity in Poland was not pleasant.
Cheers,
John K
Cheers,
John K
' Strip war of the mantle of its glories and excitement, and it will disclose a gibbering ghost of pain , grief, dissappointment and despair'
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
My topic is formed like that due to examination requirements - we spend this subject disputing about how important was the influence of Poland and Russia (and from time to time - Lithuania, Jews and Germany) onto nation-building and culture of Ukraine and Belarus (with emphasis on region of Far Borderlands). That's why I'm going onto "Against" version - I just had to include the mainstream topic into my little oneGlyndower wrote:I think your draft topic should be against Communism not against Russia and certainly not against Poland.
Oh, as I can see, the discussion is starting!
Glyndower - while researching, I struck the wall you write about. Frankly, most of authors seem to mistake units consisting of "citizens of USSR" (KONR -ROA especially). Well, I'm more than sure, that I also did that mistake - that's the con of not using original sources :]
John - these nations initially were quite "happy" to see Red Army marching in. But later on the attitude was changing quite rapid, thanks to severe politics of USSR. The same situation (more or less) repeated, when Germans came.
And - yes. Being a non-Polish ethnicity in pre-war II Rzeczpospolita (II Republic of Poland - more or less the same deal as with the numeration of "French Republics") was in most of cases a bad option. We (Poland) had no common line of ethnic policy - so each territorial administration had to make decisions on it's own - from quite a friendly attitude to the "reign of club" (more common). But, note: the case of minorities in pre-war Poland is more than complicated, really - there is no simple answer like: "it was not good then".
Pozdrawiam!
Don't worry, be crazy ;]
Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
Ukrainians and Warsaw rising is really difficult history.nino wrote:You could find story of Kaminski in Warsaw at http://stosstruppen39-45.tripod.com/id6.html
Sometime ago, there was a site sponsor for Feldgrau that put Christopher Ailsby's "Hitler's Renegades" book in theirs site. There is a chapter about Soviet Union volunteers. Askold site about Ukrainian volunteers maybe have some sight about Ukrainian-Polish rivalry. After all, theirs SS unit named "Galicia", a pre-war province of Poland ...
I doubt Vlasov ROA participation in German side during Warsaw Uprising.
Both Vlasov army and Kaminski brigade were formed from Byelarussians and Russians. But those who were captured by Poles were marked with big letter U for Ukrainians, no matter they could be from other nation. Real Ukrainians captured by Poles were ussually guards in prisons and camps.
amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas
Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
TPMM: have you read Gdanski's book about ex-Soviet volunteers in Wehrmacht/SS?
http://www.odk.pl/zapomniani-zolnierze- ... ,2210.html
This book is more or less what you are looking for.
http://www.odk.pl/zapomniani-zolnierze- ... ,2210.html
This book is more or less what you are looking for.
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
In German and just a small section: Hans Werner Neulen, AN deutscher Seite. Good analyses.
Alex
Alex
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
Thanks for the hint, Michał!
I'll keep looking! My writing on this topic is over, nevertheless, I think that I'll keep investigating it.
I'll keep looking! My writing on this topic is over, nevertheless, I think that I'll keep investigating it.
Don't worry, be crazy ;]
Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
Is your work available on the net?I'm writing an annual work in order to fulfil the examination requirements of one of my subjects. It's draft topic is: "Against Russia, Against Poland - Belarussian, Ukrainian and Russian volunteers in WWII German Army".
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Re: Belarussian/Ukrainian/Russian Volunteers in Wehrmacht etc.
Well... no!
I finished it some time ago and passed my exam (4,5 - could've been worse).
But, still, it needs a lot of improvements before it's available anywhere.
I can e-mail it to You, if You wish (I still should have your address somewhere).
PzDr
I finished it some time ago and passed my exam (4,5 - could've been worse).
But, still, it needs a lot of improvements before it's available anywhere.
I can e-mail it to You, if You wish (I still should have your address somewhere).
PzDr
Don't worry, be crazy ;]