"Handschar", Izetbegovic and Beger

Lars Gyllenhaal · Post by **Lars Gyllenhaal** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:04 am

Dear reader and especially Mr. Lepre!

I have just received Mr Lepre´s book Himmler´s Bosnian Division, i.e. on the "Handschar" division. As soon as I started looking through the book I was impressed and the more I have read the more amazed I am at the effort the author has made. It also has a good mix of text, photos and original documents. When I am finished reading the whole book I may post a more complete review on it in the book thread.

But I can already tell that two persons are missing, at least in the index, that I thought would have been in this book. I wonder if they may perhaps be in later editions of the book? I heard one of them, Mr Izetbegovic, was supposed to be in it. But perhaps he is - in a later edition? If so I may want to get a later edition and sell my current edition, printed in 1997.

These are the persons I miss:

1. The late president of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Alija Izetbegovic. While never himself a member of "Handschar", I understand that he, as a member of the Young Muslims, took part in the recruitment work for "Handschar". Or are those claims just Serbian propaganda?

2. The Tibet explorer Bruno Beger - featured in Himmler´s Crusade. Unfortunately that book does not say much on the subject of his time in "Handschar". I would have thought that Mr. Lepre´s book would have had more on him, considering his fame - at least in wartime Germany.

Sincerely,

Lars Gyllenhaal

Lorenz · Post by **Lorenz** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:31 pm

1. The late president of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Alija Izetbegovic. While never himself a member of "Handschar", I understand that he, as a member of the Young Muslims, took part in the recruitment work for "Handschar". Or are those claims just Serbian propaganda?

Evidently true, according to well-sourced posts recently made on AHF by several members from the Balkans, including at least one Bosnian university graduate student attending the Univ. of Graz. Since I spend most of my "internet" time on that forum and the fact that Yugoslavia during WW II has been my primary field of research since 1977, I am satisfied that the information is correct.

George Lepre · Post by **George Lepre** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:13 pm

Hi Lars -

Thank you for your kind words regarding my book.

Regarding Izetbegovic: As the Germans began recruiting for the Handschar Division in early 1943, they counted on the assistance of local Muslim organizations in Bosnia. However, the men who were of the greatest importance to them were of course the leaders of the autonomist circle, including Hafiz Muhamad Pandza, who at that time was Reis-ul-Ulema, and not the Young Muslims. Very few young Bosnian intellectuals joined the Division; in fact, the vast majority of the recruits were quasi-literate farmers' sons (the same was true of the Skanderbeg Division in Albania). The best educated Muslims in the division were the imams, and none of them ever mentioned belonging to the group or of it playing any role in the recruiting effort. Moreover, the voluminous German documentation regarding the recruiting makes practically no mention of the group.

When the Handschar recruiting drive fell short of expectations, the Germans instituted conscription among the Bosnian Muslims. In fact, most of the non-German division members were draftees: some were taken from the disbanded Hadziefendic Legion, others from the Croatian army's 9th Infantry Regiment, and to this were added the new conscripts. When local Bosnian groups failed to provide the kind of support that the Germans had hoped for, the SS forgot about Bosnian autonomy and the division became little more than a purely military formation. Since the "Young Muslims" played such a small role in the Handschar Division's formation, I did not devote significant attention to the organization. Most of the true volunteers joined the division because they believed it could end Cetnik massacres of Muslims in eastern Bosnia and not because of any urgings from this group.

It is interesting to note that in February 1944, Sauberzweig penned an open letter to his men in which he spoke of his hatred for Bosnia's young intellectuals. "Every lazy coffeehouse youth will despise you," he wrote. "This is because he has neglected to devote his talents to his comrades and his people. You must also despise him, for he has forfeited his manhood. Just look at his feminine long hair, his slouching posture, and his disgustingly blanched face." Presumably, he was referring to Izetbegovic and his friends!

Regarding Beger: Beger's presence in the division passed unremarked. The division's newspaper never mentioned him, and neither did any of the former division members I interviewed.

Best regards,

George

Lars Gyllenhaal · Post by **Lars Gyllenhaal** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:06 am

Dear Lorenz and George,

Thank you for your replies!

Lorenz - if you are thinking of Klemen´s input on the AHF I think you should read it again as he is more or less saying that there is no evidence, at least that he is aware of, that Izetbegovic himself took part in the recruitment work for "Handschar". Using the search word "Izetbegovic" on the AHF I have failed to find any AHF-threads supporting the cliams that the late president himself took part in that work. I´d be much obliged if you could provide links to such threads.

George - although brief (and with some errors) on "Handschar" I suggest you check out Himmler´s Crusade by Christopher Hale because it also has some very interesting stuff on another "Handschar" chap by the name of Ludwig Ferdinand Clauss. This fellow had spent a lot of time in the Middle East, converted to Islam and spoke Arabic. And his private life is absolutely fascinating!

Best regards,

Lars

Lorenz · Post by **Lorenz** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:15 am

Lars wrote:

Lorenz - if you are thinking of Klemen´s input on the AHF I think you should read it again as he is more or less saying that there is no evidence, at least that he is aware of, that Izetbegovic himself took part in the recruitment work for "Handschar". Using the search word "Izetbegovic" on the AHF I have failed to find any AHF-threads supporting the cliams that the late president himself took part in that work. I´d be much obliged if you could provide links to such threads.

Unless I'm suddenly getting senile, I believe "Gaius" said it was true about Izetbegovic. Klemen is a little old to be a university student!

Perhaps we are talking about different threads on AHF. "Gaius", incidently, recently had a Letter to the Editor published in Military History magazine using his real name. I have also had several exchanges with him off-line via PM.

Cheers,

--Lorenz

Lorenz · Post by **Lorenz** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:09 am

This issue concerning Izetbegovic is now pretty well resolved - at least in my mind - in the 7 Mar 06 posting by Gaius on AHF:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 724c89db96

--Lorenz

Lars Gyllenhaal · Post by **Lars Gyllenhaal** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:07 am

Yes, I agree.

Thank you, Lorenz for suggesting Gaius. I contacted him and asked him to comment on that thread, which he did in a very precise way.

Cheers,

Lars

Lars Gyllenhaal · Post by **Lars Gyllenhaal** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:13 am

Dear readers and especially Mr Lepre

In G. Lepres excellent book Himmler´s Bosnian Division there is one thing I can´t find - but probably it is in there somewhere but I just cant find it!

What I am looking for is this: a statement to the effect that the divison was the largest ever in the Waffen-SS. I believe this to be the case but before I would state so as a fact I would very much like to listen to Mr Lepre.

Also, has nobody here researched Bruno Beger in "Handschar"? a very interesting person indeed.

Best regards,

Lars

George Lepre · Post by **George Lepre** » Thu May 17, 2007 7:10 pm

Hi Lars -

Thanks for your note and kind words.

The SS orignially envisioned the division possessing some 26,000 men, but this never came to fruition. I would say that the division achieved its peak Gesamt-Staerke on 15 February 1944, when it possessed:

377 officers (nearly all of whom were German)
2078 NCOs (most of whom were German)
18563 men (most of whom were non-German)

The enlisted men included about 1000 Albanians from Sandzak and several thousand Germans; for example, the division's signal battalion was all German.)

With regard to the Handschar and Kama Divisions, I have estimated that about 18,000 Bosnian Muslims served in the Waffen-SS, and that many of them were conscripted.

Best regards,

George

Ljotrulf · Post by **Ljotrulf** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:59 am

Dr Beger war only with the Handschar Division for a short time in 1945 and was transferred to the Osttuerkische Waffenverband der SS shortly before the end of the war in Europe.

Lars Gyllenhaal · Post by **Lars Gyllenhaal** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:15 am

Dear Mr Ljotrulf,

Thank you for your reply.

Can you suggest any other book re. Beger than Himmler´s Crusade by Chris Hale - I have that book already.

Best regards,

Lars

Lars Gyllenhaal · Post by **Lars Gyllenhaal** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:20 am

Dear George,

Thank you for your detailed and interesting reply. Are you saying that "Handschar" would have been the largest division of the Waffen-SS had its planned strength been reached?¨

I suspect that is what you meant although you did not spell this out. Well, if that indeed is the case - which W-SS division had more men?

Best regards,

Lars

Ljotrulf · Post by **Ljotrulf** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:29 pm

Hello Lars
I also have Himmler´s Crusade by Chris Hale but can't really recommend it, besides the author behaved in a rather underhand manner when dealing with the Beger family (can't go into details on a public forum).
I believe there is also some information on Beger in the book "The Master Plan - Himmler's Scholars and the Holocaust" by Heather Pringle but I am led to believe it is mostly about his work with the Ahrenerbe. I can't be sure about this as I don't own a copy.
Beger only had scant recollections of his short time in the Waffen-SS and those he served with when I was in contact with him (I wrote to him through his son because his eyesight was failing) and only had a couple of photos of himself in W-SS uniform (I have not tried asking for his SS file from the Bundesarchiv - there might be a little more information regarding his assignments there).

Lars Gyllenhaal · Post by **Lars Gyllenhaal** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:03 am

Dear Ljotrulf,

Thank you.

There is indeed a great deal of information on Beger in the book The Master Plan by Heather Pringle. But very little about his service in "Wiking" (in the "Nordland" regt) and later "Handschar", which is what I am looking for now.

BTW I absolutely recommend The Master Plan if you have the slightest interest in the Ahnenerbe and/or Karl Maria Wiligut.

Well, I guess I will have to get Beger´s file from the Bundesarchiv.

Cheers,

Lars

George Lepre · Post by **George Lepre** » Sun May 20, 2007 6:45 am

Hi Lars -

The remarkable 26,000 figure comes from a letter written by Himmler to Konstantin Kammerhofer, his personal representative in Croatia, on 1 July 1943. In the letter, he told Kammerhofer:

"I await your report regarding the complete formation of the division with a strength of about 26,000 men by 1 August 1943...."

Where Himmler came up with this "26,000" figure from is unknown. I possess copies of all of the TOE tables for the division and none of them indicate such a large number of men in the ranks. One possibility is that the Reichsfuehrer was being pragmatic and made allowance for the fact that at least some of the volunteers would be found medically unfit for duty and would not be inducted.

Which SS division was the largest? I would think that it would be one of the formations that possessed three infantry regiments (rather than Handschar's two) or one of the Panzer Divisions, which of course would possess an armored regiment.

Best regards,

George

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