Italian Mountain Infantry Divisions?

[sid guttridge]

The Italians had an intermediate formation between ordinary infantry divisions and alpini divisions, known as the mountain infantry division.

Can anyone explain the differences between the mountain infantry division and the other two?

Were the 7th Lupi, 11th Brennero and 33rd Acqui Divisions of the mountain infantry variety? My information is that the 33rd Acqui was, but I am not so sure about the other two.

Many thanks,

Sid.

[FB]

AFAIK these were the Mountain Infantry Divisions of Regio Esercito:

1st Superga
2nd Sforzesca
3rd Ravenna
4th Livorno
26th Assietta
33rd Acqui
36th Forlì
37th Modena
59th Cagliari

The main difference was in the Arty Regiment of the Divisions:

all horse/truck towed = "normal" infantry or celere

both horse/truck towed (1 Gruppo) and packed (2 Gruppi) = Mountain Infantry

all packed = Alpini

the Arty personnell on Mountain Infantry wore the same hat (Cappello Alpino) of the Alpini Divisions.

Best regards

[Lupo Solitario]

the complete list at 1940

1st Superga
2nd Sforzesca
3rd Ravenna
4th Livorno
11th Brennero
19th Venezia
23rd Ferrara
26th Assietta
32nd Marche
33rd Acqui
36th Forlì
37th Modena
38th Puglie
53rd Arezzo
59th Cagliari

many changed role during war

The main difference with standard infantry units was that artillery and services were completely packed by mules. The result was a unit thought to move mainly on rough terrain but AFAIK they had no real mountain warfare training

(a little correction for my friend FB: the three artillery battalions (1 100/17 and 2 75/13) were all packed...In a standard infantry division there were 2 towed battalions (1 100/17 and 1 75/27) and 1 packed (75/13). In a alpine division there were only 2 packed battalions (75/13))

[FB]

the complete list at 1940

1st Superga
2nd Sforzesca
3rd Ravenna
4th Livorno
11th Brennero
19th Venezia
23rd Ferrara
26th Assietta
32nd Marche
33rd Acqui
36th Forlì
37th Modena
38th Puglie
53rd Arezzo
59th Cagliari

many changed role during war

The main difference with standard infantry units was that artillery and services were completely packed by mules. The result was a unit thought to move mainly on rough terrain but AFAIK they had no real mountain warfare training

(a little correction for my friend FB: the three artillery battalions (1 100/17 and 2 75/13) were all packed...In a standard infantry division there were 2 towed battalions (1 100/17 and 1 75/27) and 1 packed (75/13). In a alpine division there were only 2 packed battalions (75/13))

Thank you very much, Lupo.

I have found several different descriptions for the Arty reg. of a Mountain Infantry Div. The one I gave appeard to have more sense, "mixing" in it both the Alpini Arty (packed) and the "Infantry" Arty (towed). Is the one you gave relative to a specific year? I'm surprised to see packed 75/13 howitzers (the Alpini arty howitzer par excellence) in Infantry Divisions. I thought that in the "normal" infantry divisions the standard gun was the 75/27 (in one of its different models) truck towed or truck transported (i.e.: on the truck) or horse towed.

You learn something new everyday

Ciao

[sid guttridge]

Hi FB and Lupo,

Many thanks.

I was particularly interested in 1940, which means that the 11th Brennero was a mountain infantry division at that time.

I imagine that the Italian mountain infantry divisions were probably similar in concept to Greek infantry divisions, which were also widely equipped with pack artillery. Both were designed for difficult upland terrain, but not for high mountain warfare like the Alpini.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Lupo Solitario]

I have found several different descriptions for the Arty reg. of a Mountain Infantry Div. The one I gave appeard to have more sense, "mixing" in it both the Alpini Arty (packed) and the "Infantry" Arty (towed). Is the one you gave relative to a specific year? I'm surprised to see packed 75/13 howitzers (the Alpini arty howitzer par excellence) in Infantry Divisions. I thought that in the "normal" infantry divisions the standard gun was the 75/27 (in one of its different models) truck towed or truck transported (i.e.: on the truck) or horse towed.

official TO&E 1940. As you know, after 1941 italian artillery regiments become a chaos.

Told this the tactical concept about mountain infantry divisions was to have a completely packed division so to move off roads.
It seems anyway that italian army had a strange "love" for mule packs using it every possible time.
I am not learned about Greek Army but I think Sid is right in his hypothesis

[ytterbion]

I may add and the Division Giulia in the list of the Divisions "Alpini". It was the one of the Divisions that attacked Greece from the Albanian front 28th October 1940, and in a few days was pushed back, by an inferior force of infantry and a cavallry brigade.

[Lupo Solitario]

as had been clearly stated in all this thread, an italian mountain infantry division was a different thing by an alpini division, the thread is about mountain infantry divisions and Julia was an alpini division.

[sid guttridge]

Hi ytterbion,

Also on a point of information, the Italians attacked Greece with forces numerically inferior to those of the Greeks. They were expecting some sort of internal collapse in Athens that did not occur. The Greek counter-attack throughout November 1940 had numbers on its side. It was only in December 1940 that frantic Italian efforts to reinforce their armies in Albania led to numerical parity being achieved.

This said, the Greek counter-offensive, with WWI weaponry, in extremely difficult terrain and in the face of enemy air superiority, was a fine achievement.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Alpino]

Vicenza was also a mountain division attached to the Alpini Corps in Russia.They lacked artillery by standard TOE.They also were not trained at the Alpini school as Lupo said they were an entirely different soldier.