Italian Army from 1939-1944

Lupo Solitario · Post by **Lupo Solitario** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:18 am

(...continued)

During summer 1943 becomes 11th italo-german army including the german garrison.
At september 8th, 1943 the OOB (excluding germans) is:
III Corps: infantry divisions 24th "Pinerolo", 36th "Forlì"
VIII Corps: infantry divisions 29th "Piemonte", 59th "Cagliari"
XXVI Corps: infantry divisions 33rd "Acqui",37th "Modena", 56th "Casale"
Crete Garrison: infantry division 51st "Siena"

always given only division-size units

bye
Lupo

Lupo Solitario · Post by **Lupo Solitario** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:32 am

alain piquet wrote:do you have orders of battle for the CSIR during its fight in russia(composition and superior formation from its beginning to the transformation in 8 italian army),and what was the mission of the vicenza division ,she doesn't appear on the oob of the 8 ital. army.thank you for the informations you could give.

the CSIR in summer 1941 was:

9th Autotrasportabile Division "Pasubio"
79th and 80th Infantry Regiment, 8th Artillery Regiment

52nd Autotrasportabile Division "Torino"
81st and 82nd Infantry Regiment, 52nd Artillery Regiment

3rd Celere Division "Principe Amedeo Duca d'Aosta"
3rd and 5th Cavalry Regiment, 3rd Bersaglieri Regiment, III Fast Tank Group, Horse Artillery Regiment

Corps Troops
CIV MG battalion
II AT battalion
63rd Blackshirt Legion "Tagliamento"
30th Corps Artillery Group (on 5 battalions)
4 engineer battalions

about its evolution, in february 1942 it received the following reinforcements:

6th Bersaglieri Regiment
120th Artillery Regiment
Ski Battalion "Monte Cervino"

and lost the III Fast tank group (back in italy)

In summer 1942 there's the trasformation in ARMIR.

About division Vicenza: 156th Infantry Division "Vicenza" was an occupation or "type41" unit built for occupation duties or rear lines security...its employment on first line was excluded but became needed for lack of personnel. It was an army level asset until december 1942. Its OOB was two infantry regiment, a carabinieri and an MG battalion, no artillery.

Jan · Post by **Jan** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:18 am

Hi
As the arrangement of one was italian Infantry division?
How many did Btl. have it?
How many artillery departments?
Were there differences to the individual infantry divisions?

Jan

Lupo Solitario · Post by **Lupo Solitario** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:45 am

the TO&E for 1940 standard infantry division was

2 infantry regiments, each on 3 infantry battalions, 1 81mm mortar company and 1 65/17 cannon company

1 Blackshirt Legion on 2 blackshirt battalions and 1 MG company

1 81mm mortar battalion

1 47mm AT company

1 field artillery regiment on 2 75mm battalions, 1 100mm battalion and 1 20mm AA battery

1 engineer battalion

services

for a total strenght of: 449 officers, 614 NCO, 11916 ranks, 3424 horses and mules, 270 LMG, 80 HMG, 126 45mm mortars, 30 81mm mortars, 8 20mm AA guns, 8 47mm AT guns, 8 65mm cannons, 24 75mm guns, 12 100mm guns, 131 trucks and cars

The theorical TO&E was rarely reached: italian units were usually understrenght

Jan · Post by **Jan** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:02 pm

And 1945??

Jan

Lupo Solitario · Post by **Lupo Solitario** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:10 am

in 1945 there was a civil war hereabout...many armies and very few order...

Jan · Post by **Jan** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:48 am

There were Italian divisions in Germany the 1944/45 was set up. How was the arrangement this?

Lupo Solitario · Post by **Lupo Solitario** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:59 am

ok...nel 1944 RSI army formed 4 infantry divisions under german supervision and training. Of those 2 were sent back in Italy in summer-fall 1944 and 2 in winter-spring 1945.

their OOB was more or less:
1 recon battalion
2 infantry regiments on 3 battalions and 1 AT company each
1 AT battalion
1 field artillery regiment on 4 battalions
1 engineer battalion

detailed (but with some debatable point) at:
http://www.feldgrau.com/rsi.html

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:04 am

Greetings "Lupo" -

I can only speak for myself when I say "thanks for all the great information you've posted in answer to this thread"!!

I'm taking notes as fast as my little old fingers can type!! -

Best regards, as always -

Jan · Post by **Jan** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:15 am

Hi
As the arrangement of one was it. Armored division?

Jan

Lupo Solitario · Post by **Lupo Solitario** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:48 pm

1940 armored division TO&E

1 tank regiment on 4 tank battalions

1 motorized bersaglieri regiment on 2 motorized and 1 motorcycle battalion, 1 47mm AT company

1 motorized artillery regiment on 2 75mm towed battalions and 2 20mm AA batteries

1 engineer company

for a total strenght of: 273 officers, 484 NCO, 6682 ranks, 16 20mm guns, 184 tanks, 8 47mm guns, 24 75mm cannons, 581 trucks, 1170 motorcycles, 48 tractors

After 1940 italian armored division OOB modified on field so frequently it's impossible fixing a rule.

Jan · Post by **Jan** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:40 am

Hi Lupo
There was also still another navy division.
Do you have information?

Jan

Lupo Solitario · Post by **Lupo Solitario** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:18 pm

mmm...there were two units which could be defined "navy division"

1) one of the RSI army divisions named before was formally defined 3rd Naval Infantry Division "San Marco", it was formed in Germany. It was back in Italy in summer-fall 1944 and fought in the antipartisan offensives of fall 1944 in Northwestern Italy and on the Thyrrenic side of Gothic Line against americans

2) A completely different unit was the so-called Naval Infantry Division "Decima".
At italian armistice the commander of the known special force unit "X MAS", captain J.V.Borghese, signed a private agreement between him and Germans. He and his men had continued to fight aside german as a totally autonomous force. Thanks to Borghese's prestige, he started in few to collect many volunteers, former servicemen and not.
Borghese decided (with german support) so to expand his former little SF unit in a large military structure, forming a series of land combat units. For the link to navy past, they were called Naval Infantry units. The first of X MAS battalions, the "Barbarigo", fought on Anzio beachhead.
In summer 1944 there were sufficient volunteers to form a larger unit called Naval Infantry Division "Decima". The division had a simple structure on two combat groups of 2-3 infantry and 1 artillery battalion each.
Division never fought as a whole. Its components fought in antipartisan offensives of fall 1944, against yugo forces on eastern border and on the Gothic Line.
"Decima" was always an indipendent unit and resisted to every RSI government effort to "regular" it

Strange but true, neither of those "naval infantry" divisions ever depended by RSI Navy...

Jan · Post by **Jan** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:28 am

Hi
What for SS troops were set up in Italy?

Jan

Lupo Solitario · Post by **Lupo Solitario** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:54 am

complicated...enrolement of italian SS is a chaos.
Italian SS had been formed first immediately after armistice but without any order. The starting bulk was usually some MVSN unit passed with germans "as was". There were many little units and it's difficult ordering it (and, sincerly, I've never had interest on it).
I can tell only that the main bulk of italian SS was formed in a division, the 29th Grenadiers, only in late 1944-45. Another unit largely formed by italians was the 24th Karstjager. No more

Feldgrau.net

Italian Army from 1939-1944

Re: italian army 1939-1944