why pepole join invaders side?

[MrKay]

First post here...

There was a bit of discussion a while back on whether anti-British sentiments might have caused people in occupied countries to collaborate with Germany. How this might have influenced collaborators in other countries I don't know, but the chief collaborator of Norway, Vidkun Quisling, appears to in fact have been an anglophile.

Quisling was awarded the CBE for his humanitarian work in the Soviet Union in 1929, but the distinction was stripped from him in 1944. Apparently, he was deeply disappointed by this.

[philippe_jehl]

I wanted to add something I just discovered a few days ago to my original post. I found a retirement form , kind of like a resume or work history. Apparently he had to enter all work history for his retirement claim. it was a rough draft but found the entries somewhat amusing
1939-1940 Militaire
1940-1945 en Manœuvre
1946-1948 Militaire

So the surprising thing is the 1946-1948 entry. So to sum up he would have been in the German army in 1916-1918, French Army 1939 until the French surendered, 1940 to 1945 in the German Army, then 1946-1948 back in the French army and by then he was in his 50's.

Quite and interesting thread. Thought I would also pipe in.

My grand-father did not have to return to German military service during WW2 but chose to do so anyway. He was an Alsatian but lived in the Lorraine city of Nancy and had live there for several years after WW1.
He was drafted by the French at the opening of WW2 but had a Neighbor who also was Alsatian put him on medical leave. Once the French surrendered he found the nearest German unit and retuned to service in the German army. He had served in the German army as a officer in the heavy calvalry in WW1 since Alsace was part of Germany at that time. Yet in 1940 he was living in France and was in his 40's. He could have chosen to not volunteer to return to service since he already serveed and was in his 40's and with a family. So why in the world would he choose to endanger himself and possibly get killed by return to service for Germany.

Well I don't know but do know a few things that could have driven him to do so.

For one he very much hated the French. He once told me of how his cousin was executed by the French for refusing to serve in the French Army (the French army had gained control over the area the cusine lived and were drafting any man of miltary age into their army).

2. The French mounted a harsh campaign in Alsace after it became French to make Alsace French and erase anything German about it.

3. The french forced property ownners in Alsace a back tax to 1870 when Alsace was last in French control. It could be payed in Gold , silver, French Franks or in germany currency at 1/3 of the current exchange rate. If they could not pay then the property would be seized. My family lost a lot of land because of this.

4. The french did not permit Alsatians from holding public offices or any meaning position or any control of infrastructures in the public service. These were given to French famillies brought into Alsace.

5. He came from a career German military family who had originally been from Alsace, left Alsace during the French revolution and returned in 1870 to reclaim their former property.

I can understand much of what he felt like since the French mounted another Harsh campaign after WW2 to remove anything remotely German from Alsace. Even being forbidden to speak our Alsatian dialect by our non-Alsatian teachers.

He certainly did not like Hitler or what he stood for, refered to him as the Lunatic Austrian corporal.

He was not anti-semetic and a "righteous gentile" for his acts to help a train convoy of jews bound for the east.
He was not politcal or a anto this or anti that

He did not consider himself German or French but Alsatian and once told me he choses to be either German or French whatever is the most beneficial at the time. He also carried both his German and French identity papers during the war. He did not receive French citizenship until the late 1950's, yet he could have filled out his "re-integration" paper work after WW1 but chose not to, but forced to in order to receive retirement benefits.

So would he be considered a collaborator, German patriot or someone trying to survive and do the best he can to ensure the survival of himself and his family?

I know the family certainly benefited with better rations and also that he was able to secure the release of my grand-mother from the Gestapo.
His French neighbors still remained friends with the family years after the war. I don't think they considered him a collaborator. Knowing my grand-father they probably also benefited from being friends with my Grand-father as he would have done what he could for them as well.

I think like someone else said in the thread it really is on an individual basis .

[switchhitter]

(I'm afriad I haven't read each and every post which precedes this, so just tell me if im repeating anything and I'll go back and find the relevant parts)

How far do you think economic concerns influenced peoples decisions to volunteer for military service with the Germans? Even before the war unemployment was rife throughout Europe at a time when Germany was (at least perceived to be) undergoing a massive resurgence. The war can only have worsened the situation for most of occupied Europe. Would the promise of a regular meal and pay be enough to make someone take up arms with the enemy?

[Hans]

My governments enemy is not necessarily mine.
A full stomach courtesy of a perceived enemy beats an empty promise from a "friend".