concentration for barbarossa

[file]

Hi,

In the barbarossa books I noticed that halder states the concentration will be done in steps or waves. Can anyone detail on this? Also when the operation began the forces were also commited in waves, Stolfi for example describes the tank wave 4b. What is that?
I've been trying to reasech this topic for some time now but I havent found any specifc information. Can anyone help me?

thanks

[Shadow]

Greetings "file" -

Good luck!
I've gone through all of my books, articles, files etc. and although I've found numerous mention of the fact that the troops were transported up to the front in segments (steps, waves) I can't find any documentation as to the exact composition of these "waves".
Heres hoping some of our more informed comrades at Feldgrau might have the answer for us.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

best regards -

[dankane]

Not sure if this will be any help to you, but this is a table and quote from Stolfi, HITLER'S PANZERS EAST

Table 11. Barbarossa Concentration of Forces (Aufmarsch) *

German
Wave and Time Divisions

Wave 1, 2 February ? 14 March 1941 9
Wave 2, March 1941 18
Wave 3, 8 April ? 20 May 1941 17
Wave 4a, 23 May?2 June 1941 9
Wave 4b. 3 June?23 June 1941 24
Beginning 21 June?24 July 1941 24

Total 101


* Prior to the concentration, the Germans had 47 divisions in the east that eventually took part in the invasion: 12 divisions from the Polish campaign and 35 divisions emplaced between July and October after the French campaign.

The Germans assumed that the Soviets would immediately recognize danger regarding the excessive number of panzer divisions in the east. Accordingly, they left the overwhelming mass of the mobile divisions until the last possible moment for movement eastward. Table 11 illustrates the German sensitivity to ensuring surprise and the magnitude of the Aufmarsch for Barbarossa:

In Wave 4b, the last wave of the divisions that launched the attack across the frontier on 22 June 1941 (a day later in a few cases because of the relatively narrow attack fronts), the Germans moved twenty?four panzer and motorized infantry divisions. These, with their tracked and wheeled motor vehicles, were difficult to move and even more of a challenge to conceal. The Germans took major precautions to screen the movement of these divisions, then make them disappear into the countryside after offloading, once this movement began, they considered it would have significant chances of being detected, and it could not be explained by any subterfuge. The Germans also delivered to the border by train an additional twenty?four divisions, which would not take part in the initial attacks but would move into former Soviet territory toward the front from 26 June 1941 onward,

Regards

Daniel Kane.

[tigre]

Hello to all ; a little complement.......................

German deployment against Soviet Russia.........

In the last 10 days of August 1940 were transferred the 1. Pz to East Prussia and 10 infantry divisions to the Polish General Government. On September 5, 1940 it were issued instructions to move the command of Army Group B (v. Bock) and the headquarters of 4. AOK, 12. AOK and 18. AOK from west to east dated October 24, 1940. On October 6, 1940 the headquarters of Army Group B was established in Poznan. The 12. AOK (v. List) is established in Krakow, the 4. AOK (v. Kluge) in Warsaw and the 18. AOK (v. Küchler) first at Bromberg and then at Königsberg . So were demobilized the Army Headquarters in Krakow (v. Ulex), Headquarters of 5. AOK in Lodz (Liebmann) and the Army Headquarters in Königsberg (v. Gienanth). As October 30, 1940 v. Bock had under his command a total of 34 divisions of which 25 infantry, 3 armored, one motorized and one of cavalry in the General Government and East Prussia and 4 in Austria (2. Pz; 9. Pz; 11. Pz and 60. Mot ID).

The 1. ID returned to its garrisons in East Prussia in September 1940.

Source: MS # C-065 1 Barbarossa. Helmuth Greiner.

Any chance of knowing which those 34 divisions were? and more details on subsequent waves?. TIA. Raúl M .

[ljadw]

21 december 1940:AGB:25 ID,1 Cavalry division,4 PzD,and in the region of Vienna 2 PZ and 1 ID. In Romania:13 MOT and 16 PzD.

The transport of the 2nd Staffel lasted till the beginning of april .

The transport of the 3th Staffel(17 ID) started on 8 april and was finished on 20 may
Staffel IVA(9 ID) between 23 may and 2 june.
Staffel IVB(12 Pz and 12 Mot):between 3 and 23 june.

There were in the east only 5 Pz and 2 Mot Divisions on 1 june,most Pz and Mot D arrived only after 14 junE.

In the east :
23 april :56 Divisions
1 may:60
14 may :72
5 june:93

On 22 june(Finland included) :
114 divisions(of which 28 mobile) + 3 brigades (GD,LSSAH,Nord) + 6 security divisions.

In the OKH reserve:28 divisions (3 mobile) and 1 brigade (lehr)

3332 tanks and 250 Assault guns
artillery :7146 (LW flak not included)

combat aircraft:2954 ,of which 2232 operational

[tigre]

Hello to all ; thanks for that info ljadw . Regards. Raúl M .

[tigre]

Hello to all ; something about it as already as early as July 1940 some divisones were moved Eastwards................

Moving of German Units from the West to Poland in the summer of 1940.

76. ID was transferred starting July 1, 1940 to Moldavia.
217. The ID was transferred starting July 2 to Gumbinnen, Goldap, Ebenrode, Tilsit, Memel.
298. ID was transferred starting July 2 to Tarnow, Debica and subordinate to 12. AOK.
168. ID was transferred starting July 3, 1940 to Kielce, Radomsko, Radom, Tomaszow and subordinate to Höhere Kdo XXXIV (19 July 1940) and then to XXXXIV AK.
291. ID was transferred starting July 3, 1940 to Preussich Eylau in East Prussia and subordinate to XXVI AK. Later the bulk was stationed in Intersburg and one regimental grouping in Tilsit.
257. ID was transferred starting July 4, 1940 to Cracow, Nowy Sacz, Tarnow, Rzeszow, Jaslo, Jaroslaw, Przemysl, Krosno; employed in occupation duties, security and training.
161. ID was transferred starting July 5, 1940 to Elk, Olecko, Suwalki, Wehrkreis I and subordinate to XXVI AK.
292. ID was transferred starting July 5, 1940-to Biala Podlaska, Losice, Sokolow, Kossow, Wegrow, Siedlce and subordinate to Höhere Kdo XXXV.
162. ID was transferred starting July 7, 1940 to Warsaw and then east of the Vistula river to Radzymin from July 15, 1940.
252. ID was transferred starting July 10, 1940 to Warsaw, Lowicz, Skierniewice, Grojec and subordinate to Höhere Kdo XXXV.
75. ID was transferred starting July 16, 1940 to Zamosc and Lublin and was subordinate to III. AK.
297. ID was transferred starting July 16, 1940 to Crakow, Kielce, Rzeszow and subordinate to XVII. AK.
258. ID was transferred starting July 17, 1940 to Brodnica, Ciechanow, Pultusk, Plock, Modlin, Ostrow Wielkopolski, Rozan, Nasielsk and subordinate to XXX AK.
62. ID was transferred starting July 27, 1940 to Lublin- Chelm and subordinate to III. AK.
68. ID was transferred eastwards (General Government) starting August 11, 1940 and subject to the Höhere Kdo XXXIV.

Source: http://www.maparchive.ru/index.php/divisions.html
Orig_ Fotoalbum 292_ Infanteriedivision 13_- I_R_ 508 bei eBay_de 1918-1945 (endet 15_11_09 201559 MEZ)

Cheers. Raúl M .

Feliz Año Nuevo - Happy New Year - Feliz Ano Novo - Gluckliches Neues Jahr - Bonne Année - Felice Anno Nuovo - Szczęśliwego nowego roku!!!.

[CNE_EMB]

Hello Daniel,

Interesting post, but I'm afraid I must disagree with two points:

Prior to the concentration, the Germans had 47 divisions in the east that eventually took part in the invasion: 12 divisions from the Polish campaign and 35 divisions emplaced between July and October after the French campaign.

On May 10th, 1940, Germans had an occupation force in the Generalgouvernement of 17 divisions (3. and 9. Wellen). These divisions except four (206., 213., 228. and 239. Infanterie Divisionen) were all disbanded between July 22nd and August 31st, 1940.
The four remaining ones were sent to the Ersatzheer and placed at the disposal of the German economy until Spring 1941.

So, there were only the divisions sent with the 18. Armee in July and August 1940 (fifteen infantry divisions), and then with the 4. and 12. Armeen in September and October (at least nineteen divisions, includind seven mechanized ones), at this time in East Prussia and Poland.

Then, you took the Staffeln mentioned by Halder in his diary (entry for April, 30th 1941). But the same Halder later in his diary said that the rythm was altered and that the movement changed. So it is probable that the periods you mentioned are not right.

Best regards,

CNE EMB

[CNE_EMB]

Gerhard L. Weinberg (Germany and the Soviet Union, 1939-1941, Leiden E.J. Brill, 1954, 218 pages) said something interesting about this (p.98): "Accordingly, the Germans had left along the Eastern border on May 7, 1940 only four regular and nine territorial (Landesschützen) divisions".
A reference was made concerning these figures saying "Germany, OKW, WFA, "Übersicht [über die deutsche Heeresverteilung], 7 May 1940, 1783, PS (photostat, 1p.)".

Dr. Niehorster (http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany ... erost.html) gives another figures for the Oberost on May 10th, 1940: four divisions (including two territorial ones) for the Grenzabschnittkommando "Nord", eight divisions (including four territorial ones) for the Grenzabschnittkommando "Mitte", and five divisions (including three territorial ones) for the Grenzabschnitt Kommando "Süd". Final: 17 divisions including nine territorial ones.

Maybe Weinberg didn't count the Grenzabschnitt Kommando "Nord" which protected the East Prussian borders, with its four subordinated divisions? But it had two territorial divisions, so it can't match either...

CNE EMB

[CNE_EMB]

Some sources say that the 206., 213., 218. and 239. Infanterie Divisionen were sent on the Western front around May 10, 1940 (probably shortly after the start of the German offensive). It would make understandable the figures quoted by Weinberg. Does anyone can confirm the departure of these four divisions to the West and the associated dates?

Thanks!
Cheers,

CNE EMB